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Alright, so Sprint EVDO is down the drain, but why?

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james_the_composer
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Alright, so Sprint EVDO is down the drain, but why? Reply with quote

So I know that everyone is facing a 5 Gigabyte Cap now a month, but has Sprint ever announced WHY this is happening publicly? I don't get it...

I have lived in the same house all my life, in a rural area. For 10 years I've been wanting, pleading to GOD for SOME kind of broadband service. Now I finally find out that it's possible and a half a year later all my hopes and dreams are thrown down the drain. It's not fair...seriously...

Cable used to be 5 miles away and now it's 1/2 a mile. So for the last 3 years it's been like dangling a piece of Steak in front of a starving dog.

I wouldn't mind 10KBps a month!!! Just 10!! As long as it's unlimited Bandwidth per month, running at every second, Up/Down...

The very ESSENCE of internet is unlimited. The internet of these days means Streaming HEAVY Video, Streaming HEAVY Audio, and Streaming HEAVY Games.

Then, what is it? Does it cost them much more money? Are people abusing the system? Why not a 30GB cap AT LEAST!? Hell why not 20GB? 5 GB is insane....

Damnit, I'm so frustrated right now...
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n6gn
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Alright, so Sprint EVDO is down the drain, but why? Reply with quote

james_the_composer wrote:
So I know that everyone is facing a 5 Gigabyte Cap now a month, but has Sprint ever announced WHY this is happening publicly? I don't get it...



I understand your frustration. WHY I think this is the case is physics first and economics second, see this thread:
http://www.evdoforums.com/thread9408.html

n6gn
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jackrodgers
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's simple economics and physics.

One tower can only produce some much bandwidth and that bandwidth can only produce so much data transfer. EVDO is far more limited than cable.

In order for a company to produce an EVDO tower it must make a profit.

If the bandwidth is in continuous use than it must be divided among xx people willing to spend zz dollars.

So dividing bandwidth/monthly fee = number of people to stay in business. If a small percentage of xx people use up all of the bandwidth, there is none left for the remainder of the people.

In that event the people getting no or bad service will cancel their contract and the company will go out of business.

Also if the small percentage of people were removed as users, then more subscribers could be added increasing income by 10 fold compared to the heavy users.

An exageration of course but it covers the basics.

The real numbers are probably incomprehensible and boring to most of us.
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rickey318
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum posting, or for the RV people that need the lastest updates and maps. If the 5GB thing goes well all the providers will be updating to allow more BW and plus rollover BW that you did not use. If your trying to stream, host servers, or anything that should be done with something as Cable, T1, or in a datacenter. There just trying to save there towers and the old people that are trying to start using the internet. Very Happy
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waynefoutz
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum posting, or for the RV people that need the lastest updates and maps. If the 5GB thing goes well all the providers will be updating to allow more BW and plus rollover BW that you did not use. If your trying to stream, host servers, or anything that should be done with something as Cable, T1, or in a datacenter. There just trying to save there towers and the old people that are trying to start using the internet. Very Happy


Then why call it broadband if I'm only supposed to use it for static web pages? Why upgrade it all? Why not just market 1xrtt cards if that's all they can handle? Seriously, what the hell difference does it make to have your google search results display in one second as opposed to 5? In the end, it looks exactly the same. Now they are telling us "great news! we're rolling out wimax next year!" In the words of Chris Farley, well woooopty fricken dooo! Then what? I get the pleasure of watching my myspace page load in a half a second as opposed to one? Don't you dare stream video with that nasty PC, we need that bandwidth so the new treo users can watch SprintTV.
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n6gn
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waynefoutz wrote:


Then why call it broadband if I'm only supposed to use it for static web pages?



I think this is a good question. I'm guessing the answer is that it's "because they can" or, interestingly, *could*. I see that the Wikipedia entry says that the official FCC definition just changed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_Internet_access

The problem with this definition is that it's a data rate and says nothing about a data (information) quantity. As you point out, a quantity cap can make some applications pretty unappealing or even useless.

Put another way, 56K dial-up systems might be able to deliver 45 kbps (for some anyway). You can get to 5 GB in just over 10 days at that rate, but most people don't consider that broadband or useful for many of the applications we are all coming to expect from the Internet. Of course, because each user has a dedicated phone line rather than sharing a cell site carrier, there's no reason that the carriers had to limit dial up usage to 15 GB/month.

I wonder if we'll see any changes in marketing as a result of the new definition for "broadband".

n6gn
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rickey318
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waynefoutz wrote:
rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum posting, or for the RV people that need the lastest updates and maps. If the 5GB thing goes well all the providers will be updating to allow more BW and plus rollover BW that you did not use. If your trying to stream, host servers, or anything that should be done with something as Cable, T1, or in a datacenter. There just trying to save there towers and the old people that are trying to start using the internet. Very Happy


Then why call it broadband if I'm only supposed to use it for static web pages? Why upgrade it all? Why not just market 1xrtt cards if that's all they can handle? Seriously, what the hell difference does it make to have your google search results display in one second as opposed to 5? In the end, it looks exactly the same. Now they are telling us "great news! we're rolling out wimax next year!" In the words of Chris Farley, well woooopty fricken dooo! Then what? I get the pleasure of watching my myspace page load in a half a second as opposed to one? Don't you dare stream video with that nasty PC, we need that bandwidth so the new treo users can watch SprintTV.


The reason its called broadband is because it has the speed of nearly cable. But, you have to understand EVDO is still a little new and in Beta mode. If your willing to wait like users are doing all this will being to allow more. The reason for the BW limit is because people in big metro places are reporting that they are not getting there said speed because others are trying to run the whole house of the EVDO card. Just take the 5GB limit with the provider your with because all of the cell companies will start doing the same. Very Happy
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orangepeel
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum


Oh please! You just need dial-up if all you need to do is check email,and post in a forum.

Now I will agree people are ruining the towers by constantly using bit torrents 24/7.

I don't mind it being capped if it's like 15-20 gigs a month,but 5 gigs is out of line.
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rickey318
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orangepeel wrote:
rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum


Oh please! You just need dial-up if all you need to do is check email,and post in a forum.

Now I will agree people are ruining the towers by constantly using bit torrents 24/7.

I don't mind it being capped if it's like 15-20 gigs a month,but 5 gigs is out of line.


Yea, maybe they do need dialup. But, good for me I have EVDO from Verizon and Cable. So its not a cap problem till I get on the road. 15-20 gigs would be great. But, the question is can people wait?
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mhtyler
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the limit, but unless you're downoading video...I mean big videos, and living on the thing, it strikes me that for surfing, email, and the occasional download...even of a movie isn't going to put you over 5 gigs, and even if it did, there's no guarantee that they'll cut you off or even slow you down. I suspect its something that is simply at their discretion, and why would they be any more efficient at enforcing a limit than they are providing support.

I've talked to sprint people many times, and their programs are so complicated they don't understand them themselves. I've switched to the simply (almost) everything plan, and because we have two phones, we actually have 10 gigs as long as we monitor usage. However, we only use it as primary internet when we're on holiday.

I can understand the consternation of the fellow who started this thread, and who is out in the sticks feeling cut off, but if my choice was dial up, sat internet or sprint, I wouldn't hesitate to use the latter, and monitor usage. The VAST reduction in ping times means you'll have an experience similar to dsl, and you tough it out until cable makes it that last half mile, or dsl, which may be even more likely.

I would actually have more concern if bought the plan realizing that you'd have to roam most of the time, because then you're hosed for sure.

mark
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waynefoutz
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickey318 wrote:
waynefoutz wrote:
rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum posting, or for the RV people that need the lastest updates and maps. If the 5GB thing goes well all the providers will be updating to allow more BW and plus rollover BW that you did not use. If your trying to stream, host servers, or anything that should be done with something as Cable, T1, or in a datacenter. There just trying to save there towers and the old people that are trying to start using the internet. Very Happy


Then why call it broadband if I'm only supposed to use it for static web pages? Why upgrade it all? Why not just market 1xrtt cards if that's all they can handle? Seriously, what the hell difference does it make to have your google search results display in one second as opposed to 5? In the end, it looks exactly the same. Now they are telling us "great news! we're rolling out wimax next year!" In the words of Chris Farley, well woooopty fricken dooo! Then what? I get the pleasure of watching my myspace page load in a half a second as opposed to one? Don't you dare stream video with that nasty PC, we need that bandwidth so the new treo users can watch SprintTV.


The reason its called broadband is because it has the speed of nearly cable. But, you have to understand EVDO is still a little new and in Beta mode. If your willing to wait like users are doing all this will being to allow more. The reason for the BW limit is because people in big metro places are reporting that they are not getting there said speed because others are trying to run the whole house of the EVDO card. Just take the 5GB limit with the provider your with because all of the cell companies will start doing the same. Very Happy



Then punish those people. I had this same conversation with AT&T employees before I left for Sprint. They told me flat out their ideal 3g data card customer was the jet-setter business traveler, who was more apt to leave his card in his laptop bag for weeks at a time, not someone who actually used it. It was not meant to be your primary internet connection. My HDSPA card is packed away in a drawer now., and they are getting NOTHING from me now.

I totally disagree with Sprint's CEO that 5 gigs is a "huge chunk of data." Maybe in 1998 it was but not so much now. Hell the latest windows update last week weighed in at slightly over half a gig.

My having a card capable of 1.5 mbps and a 5 gig cap is like jumping in a Ferrari you paid cash for, then have the salesmen tell you "oh by the way there is a 15 mph speed governor on the carburator." I might as well hook it up to a team of horses and have them pull me while i sit in it with the tranny in neutral revving the engine. "vroom vroom."


ad below, get a booster antenna and watch your evdo fly...yeah right into a TOS violation.
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rickey318
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waynefoutz wrote:
rickey318 wrote:
waynefoutz wrote:
rickey318 wrote:
As the other two said "It's simple economics and physics." Plus people are running there towers down by thinking it is for running a small Datacenter. EVDO is just a way to get internet to do things as reading and sending email, a little forum posting, or for the RV people that need the lastest updates and maps. If the 5GB thing goes well all the providers will be updating to allow more BW and plus rollover BW that you did not use. If your trying to stream, host servers, or anything that should be done with something as Cable, T1, or in a datacenter. There just trying to save there towers and the old people that are trying to start using the internet. Very Happy


Then why call it broadband if I'm only supposed to use it for static web pages? Why upgrade it all? Why not just market 1xrtt cards if that's all they can handle? Seriously, what the hell difference does it make to have your google search results display in one second as opposed to 5? In the end, it looks exactly the same. Now they are telling us "great news! we're rolling out wimax next year!" In the words of Chris Farley, well woooopty fricken dooo! Then what? I get the pleasure of watching my myspace page load in a half a second as opposed to one? Don't you dare stream video with that nasty PC, we need that bandwidth so the new treo users can watch SprintTV.


The reason its called broadband is because it has the speed of nearly cable. But, you have to understand EVDO is still a little new and in Beta mode. If your willing to wait like users are doing all this will being to allow more. The reason for the BW limit is because people in big metro places are reporting that they are not getting there said speed because others are trying to run the whole house of the EVDO card. Just take the 5GB limit with the provider your with because all of the cell companies will start doing the same. Very Happy



Then punish those people. I had this same conversation with AT&T employees before I left for Sprint. They told me flat out their ideal 3g data card customer was the jet-setter business traveler, who was more apt to leave his card in his laptop bag for weeks at a time, not someone who actually used it. It was not meant to be your primary internet connection. My HDSPA card is packed away in a drawer now., and they are getting NOTHING from me now.

I totally disagree with Sprint's CEO that 5 gigs is a "huge chunk of data." Maybe in 1998 it was but not so much now. Hell the latest windows update last week weighed in at slightly over half a gig.

My having a card capable of 1.5 mbps and a 5 gig cap is like jumping in a Ferrari you paid cash for, then have the salesmen tell you "oh by the way there is a 15 mph speed governor on the carburator." I might as well hook it up to a team of horses and have them pull me while i sit in it with the tranny in neutral revving the engine. "vroom vroom."


ad below, get a booster antenna and watch your evdo fly...yeah right into a TOS violation.


Lol, thats real true. It was made for the company people who know they will not be using it alot. Thats what they was thinking when they first got it out to everyone eles. They was not thinking that people would leave there other provide and depend on them for the internet support. 5GB can get a every other day user a whole month with maybe a GB left.
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mhtyler
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW you can blame Verizon for making the limit specifically 5 gigs. Sprint has only matched it. I bet also that it won't be strictly enforced except in cases with chronic high usage.

It does indeed mean that using sprint as your primary ISP is not practical unless your usage is undemanding.
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waynefoutz
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mhtyler wrote:
BTW you can blame Verizon for making the limit specifically 5 gigs. Sprint has only matched it. I bet also that it won't be strictly enforced except in cases with chronic high usage.

It does indeed mean that using sprint as your primary ISP is not practical unless your usage is undemanding.



Well, I have roadrunner at the house, but the problem there is my job. I'm an over the road trucker, and I only get home one week a month. I typically stay out for four weeks then come home for one week. So during those 4 weeks, Sprint is my primary connection. I do stream a lot of video, download podcasts to listen to as i'm driving, also download audiobooks.
About a month ago I found hulu.com and got hooked. Now netflix has streaming movies. that has to stop i guess. I suppose I'll break down and get a tv. Lets's see what's on broadcast now...American Gladiator, so you think you can dance, and the bachelorette....dammit I'm going to miss hulu!
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jackrodgers
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="orangepeel"]
rickey318 wrote:
Oh please! You just need dial-up if all you need to do is check email,and post in a forum.


Mobile is the key word. Dial Up isn't mobile, is it?

With the card I can take my Mac Book Pro anywhere (?) and connect to the internet.

I can't imagine a 45 mile phone line that I can drag behind my car... Laughing
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