'Limited' broadband vs. breaking Verizons terms + cond.

simeyla · EVDO Newbie Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

I'm trying to determine what you can really 'get away with' with verizons 'unlimited' broadband. My theory is that if i can get 1.65mbps sustained then anybody else on the same cell can also get that much since the connection is time multiplexed. So how is that possibly 'impacting other users'.

Now I've added broadband access to my account my phone bill is $145 a month. Fortunately a company affilliation/discout brings it down to $123 but still thats a lot of money!

I've downloaded 4.6GB in less than 4 days - mostly from testing. I've seen people use ~1GB per day or more without having their accounts suspended or limited.

Can anyone offer any thoughts on what you can really get away with?

It is my understanding that each user gets the full bandwidth of the connection for a burst of time so you cant really be impacting other users in the same way as you would if you were on a home router.

Since VZW is now advertising on TV I would expect that theyre expecting lots of 'abuse' and that therefore their network is able to take it.

What are peoples thoughts?

-simon

rickster · EVDO Junkie Joined: 27 Aug 2005 Posts: 216

Keep it up and post back here when your back on dial-up so all can know Razz

SL10 · Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject:

Jimincalifornia · EVDO User Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 72

Until I found this stuff and scored a Kyocera 650 on Verizon, I was going to go with a sat dish on my RV...probably the Hughes "DirecWAY" service.

Bandwidth is about 300kb down (varies) and 50kb up.

They have an interesting way of controlling bandwidth, called the "Fair Access Policy" or FAP which they tell you about up-front.

You get a certain amount of bandwidth in megabytes, I think it was about 165meg in the basic plan. It fills back up at a rate of 45kb/s.

In other words, if you want to download 300megs, you can do the first 165 as a big streaming chunk and then continue at 45kb/s OR logout for a while (or do low-bandwidth stuff) and your "availability bucket" will fill back up to 165megs at a rate of 45kb/s whether you're logged on or not - unless of course you use part of that 45kb/s incoming to do something low-bandwidth like browse this forum which will slow the fill some. Logging completely out means max fill rate. You don't need to refill the whole 165meg of availability, just what's needed to get the rest of your 300megs.

Hey, it sucks some but at least they're up-front about it and you know exactly when it's going to speed back up again, at what speed and under what conditions. You can pay more a month for higher FAP numbers (both the "bucket size" and "fill rate"). There's also a free downloadable "FAP monitor" program so you can see where you're at. There's no billing issue involved, you can use your bandwidth however you want on whatever you want that's legal Smile

.

I suspect this is where Verizon may need to go eventually. They are for damnsure competing directly with those sat guys. Even their prices reflect it - StarBand (the other major satellite vendor) just dropped their monthly to $59.99 a bit before Verizon did so...coincidence? I think not...

Starband also uses a "FAP"...

rickster · EVDO Junkie Joined: 27 Aug 2005 Posts: 216

I've seen rumors the satellite carriers are looking seriously at WiMax. Once wireless really get's wide spread do you think satellite will survive for data? Also, the next generation of wireless will I'm thinking lessen restrictions some.

SL10 · Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

simeyla · EVDO Newbie Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

the thing about bandwidth is ... when its gone its gone!

at any one point in time if i'm downloading at 1mbps then anyone else on my tower will be able to as well (since its time division multiplexed) as far as i understand.

so why would they care? perhaps they pay for bandwidth by Gb from somebody else, but other than that it shoudlnt matter. in any case i'd still be downloading way less than i would over DSL.

with satellite theres much more of a crunch so they have to do something like that.

total Gb per month is really meaningless as far as how far you are impacting their service -- provided that at any one point in time you're able to get the 'advertised bandwidth'.

i find it remarkable how some people on this forum get so defensive about high bandwidth users taking bandwidth for everybody else. if those users are only emailing and doing 'light surfing' then why should they care. in anycase they get the same opportunity to get the bandwidth as anybody else.

i also notice that the terms dont say anything about downloading news or streaming news video. i watched hurricane rita coverage for several hours over the last couple of days and i cannot find anything in the terms that prohibits that. its very interesting to me how they say movies and music and not video and audio.

-simon

SL10 · Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject:

IMO. I think the record and movie industry is probably behind this move. Cause it seems since the Supreme Court ruled in their favor that RIAA is suing any and all P2P sites. I am willing to bet RIAA is an influence in the EVDO marketplace here. Again just my opinion and a can of salt included.
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simeyla · EVDO Newbie Joined: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

and i looked at my information packet. none of the information on the website is there although they do send me a rather informative brochure on 3 way calling and call waiting :-/

there was only one slip of paper about EVDO and the only small print contained information about rates and taxes. the service description was 'unlimited' 400-700 type stuff

SL10

http://www.geckobeachforums.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2594

LimeWire Works to Block Unlicensed Material

September 25, 2005
Thomas Mennecke

The current version of LimeWire is 4.9.30. As of this version, no impediments exist that disallows the free sharing of information. The occassional nag screen may pop up once and a while, however this is little more than a mere nuisance for the average user. If the occassional nag screen is truly a bother, there are plenty of other Gnutella clients to choose from.

However, LimeWire has become and remains to this day one of the premier Gnutella clients. Its population is often situated at 2 million plus simultaneous users - easily outstripping the peak populations of Napster and WinMX. Its large resource of mainstream and non-mainstream music has made this a client of choice for new comers and veteran file-traders alike.

While things may seem rosy, it appears this constant is about to change.

On June 26, 2005, the United States Supreme Court remanded the MGM vs. Grokster lawsuit back to the lower courts. In a 9-0 ruling, the court stated "We hold that one who distributes a device with the object of promoting its use to infringe copyright, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement, is liable for the resulting acts of infringement by third parties."

This opinion, written by Justice David H. Souter has caused great confusion and uncertainty in the P2P development community. The confusion raised has led to various results, such as BearShare halting development, while Neo-Modus has completely vanished. It also led to a disturbing message from LimeWire CEO Mark Gorton.

From the New York Times:

"Mark Gorton, the chief executive of the Lime Group, a brokerage firm that makes LimeWire, a file-sharing alternative to Grokster, said he was likely to stop distributing LimeWire in reaction to the ruling. He said it appeared too difficult to meet the implied standard for inducement."

"Some people are saying that as long as I don't actively induce infringement, I'm O.K.," he said. "I don't think it will work out that way."

The court, Mr. Gorton said, has "handed a tool to judges that they can declare inducement whenever they want to."

However time passed and this seemingly imminent decree never came to fruition. LimeWire development plodded on, yet the LimeWire staff remained silent on much of the behind the scenes activity.

Then, on September 13, 2005, the RIAA sent several letters to various P2P developers. The letter, which LimeWire is believed to have been a recipient of, demands that P2P developers prevent their users from infringing on copyrights or face litigation. It now appears that LimeWire might bow to this demand.

Approximately 3 to 5 days ago, LimeWire developers began working on two new branches, cc_reverify_interval-branch and cc-publish-branch. The code in the first branch works to verify that every file shared has a license. If this is not the case, the file will not be shared. The second branch is for publishing one's own work without a license. According to the release notes, individuals can attach a Creative Commons license if the work is either their own or have permission to distribute the work.

If an individual shares an unlicensed MP3 file, the LimeWire client will display the following message and prevent its distribution:

"LimeWire can't determine if one or more files have been published under a suitable license. These files will not be shared."

According to a LimeWire beta tester who informed Slyck of this news, this feature is nearing completion. Once completed, developers will simply wait for the signal to integrate these branches with the main branch, providing Mark Gorton, CEO of LimeWire, decides to go through with this.

The EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) stated the US Supreme Court ruling would have a chilling effect on technological development. This certainly appears true for commercial development; however LimeWire’s saving grace is its open source nature. LimeWire may soon block the trading of unlicensed files, but LimeWire variants will continue to exist.

The recent court ruling puts LimeWire in an unfortunate situation. The Supreme Court ruled those who “actively induce” copyright infringement can be held liable. LimeWire never “actively induced” anyone – as it was always more of a research and development client than anything else. To chill a research client such as LimeWire may help expose the RIAA’s seemingly unfettered access to taunt and bully P2P developers into submission.
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tim_gladding · Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: the thing about bandwidth