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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: MBR-1000 Mobile Install and Power Regulation |
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[I take no responsibility or liability for the following information]
As you may know, while the MNR-1000 accepts 12 volts, it is not acceptable to directly connect the unit to an auto/marine electrical system, as the voltage on these systems can run between somewhere around 10 volts, to past 16 volts, with an average of probably around 14.1 volts.
I have tested several mobile power supplies for the CradlePoint MBR-1000 router.
Of the units I tested, I only found one that was really acceptable. It not only provides very good voltage regulation, it also provides very good isolation, and surge protection as well.
In fact, the unit did such a good job, I just bought a second unit to power my Wilson Dual band amplifier, with a side note that the Wilson dc adapter for that unit that I got though the 3GStore provides absolutely zero voltage regulation, meaning that when hooked up to a car, it is constantly getting over-volted, under-volted and surged (and so is the signal and the equipment plugged into it).
The unit is at:
http://www.powerstream.com/
Click on the right "DC/DC converter"
Select the link for a "20 Watt 12 volt to 12 Volt DC/DC converter brick"
and you want the "PST-SU20-12-12S-complete" unit.
Note that you do have "trim" the unit by plugging in a voltmeter, and setting to the exact output voltage you want (before you plug in into the router).
I have forwarded this info to the 3GStore, in hopes that they will start offering regulated power converters to their customers as a preferred method for all DC installations
Side Note: After hosing a CTR-350 using the DC adapter sold by the 3GStore, I now use only regulated power adapters, and no longer trust supplied adapters to do the job right.
Happy ending: Now that the system is installed, we are getting broadband to all of our laptops and other devices, within approx one-half mile of our PT Crusier!
Joe |
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cgerrells
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Nice info. I'm about to do the exact same thing in my Pathfinder, but I'll be using a EVDO Direct Connect Amplifier (3 Watt) with AC Adapter with the MBR1000. The original 12v adapter that shipped with the Amp got destroyed... (My wife broke it by stacking soda against it in the cargo area... sigh) So, this time I'm hard wiring in everything.
Since you seem to know a little bit about this kind of stuff... I'm also looking to buy a solar panel that I can mount on my roof, to keep my battery from going dead if I leave all this on. What would be the power draw of everything?
Here is the info I have been able to scrape together....
EVDO Router MPR1000 12v 1.5Amps
EVDO card Sprint EX720 3.3v (is powered by router.)
EVDO AMP 12v 0.5-1.5Amps
And looking at the power supplies... couldn't I just use 1 of those to power both devices? They both seem to be 1.5 amps and that power supply can put out 20w.
Thanks for any help. |
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Michael
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 5133
Location: Cary, IL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Joe,
Thanks for your post(s).
We are always looking to enhance our products and product lines. We have been evaluating different adapters, but no decision yet. Thanks for the link above.
The CTR350 that got fried was from a Amplifier DC Adapter cable that you accidently plugged into the CTR350, correct?
_________________
EVDO :: EVDO News :: EVDO Antennas :: Buy Verizon :: Buy Sprint :: EVDO Amplifier |
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firedude
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joe,
You wrote"it is not acceptable to directly connect the unit to an auto/marine electrical system"
I see where the MRB1000 comes with a 12 volt power supply. What type is then that you couldn't use in your vehicle?? I'll find out in the morning when mine arrives. but just curios since it said it was included (12v supply).
On edit ...ops I see where it works on 12v (which I knew), but doesn't say included. What did they expect us to use lol? Argh, I could have sworn I read that lol!
Thanks for the post Joe!
Tony |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cgerrells wrote: | Nice info. I'm about to do the exact same thing in my Pathfinder, but I'll be using a EVDO Direct Connect Amplifier (3 Watt) with AC Adapter with the MBR1000. The original 12v adapter that shipped with the Amp got destroyed... (My wife broke it by stacking soda against it in the cargo area... sigh) So, this time I'm hard wiring in everything.
Since you seem to know a little bit about this kind of stuff... I'm also looking to buy a solar panel that I can mount on my roof, to keep my battery from going dead if I leave all this on. What would be the power draw of everything?
Here is the info I have been able to scrape together....
EVDO Router MPR1000 12v 1.5Amps
EVDO card Sprint EX720 3.3v (is powered by router.)
EVDO AMP 12v 0.5-1.5Amps
And looking at the power supplies... couldn't I just use 1 of those to power both devices? They both seem to be 1.5 amps and that power supply can put out 20w.
Thanks for any help. |
Hello Michael,
I believe that (Ohm's Law?) states that
Volts * Amps = Watts
Watts / Volts = Amps (and so forth).
I would think that that power requirements of the MBR-1000 includes the cards you will be plugging in to it, as the power adapter for the unit has to power them as well.
The power adapter I got for the MBR-1000 actually puts out 12.5 volts.
Anyway, 20 watts / 12.5 volts = 1.6 amps, (thay actually state 1.7 amps) so you would need 2 of the power converters to power both the amp and the router.
Armed with the formulas above, you can total up the max draw of everything, and size the solar panel to fit.
Key points:
1) Do not forget that the converters run at 82% efficiency, so that will need to be factored in.
2) The sun does not always shine at 100% efficiency, and the amount of time the sun is available varies through the year. Finally, the angle of the panel to the sun will not always be straight on. Some panels use a fresnel lens pattern over the cells to help minimize the effect. Factor this in as well.
3) There will be some voltage drop from the panel to the battery. Factor this in too.
4) Make sure the panel has a blocking diode to prevent reverse current flow when the battery voltage exceeds the output of the solar panel. These days, I believe most panels have one built in.
5) If you don't mind spending additional cash, they make units to regulate the power of the solar panels back to the battery to maximize efficiency of the charge. You can actually charge a battery faster by monitoring its internal resistance, and shutting off the charge for a little bit at the right time, then turning the charge back on when the battery is optimal to continue accepting a charge. There used to be a company called "Hamilton Ferris" www.hamiltonferris.com that sold such an animal.
6) You can hook in an properly sized amp meter into the circuit, and get an exact reading of the current draw. Most multimeters can probably handle measuring the above currents.
I have successfully used solar panels on our sailboat, and once was able to go 6 months without aux power, and we where running a TV, VHS, stereo, VHF radio(s), and running lights. Carefully managed, I think I recall we did it all on 88 watts worth of panels (in the tropics).
If you are going to use AC power in your Pathfinder, I highly recommend getting a pure sine wave inverter. AIMS makes a really nice 300 watt unit with a USB port for about $129. With a pure sine wave unit, your equipment will run cooler, better (since it is generally considered to be cleaner power than you will get from the power company), with less interference, and wont burn out your chargers and laptop power bricks. It will also run more types of equipment (medical, microwave, tv's) than a modified sine wave unit.
I hope this has been helpfull. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Joe |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael wrote: | Joe,
Thanks for your post(s).
We are always looking to enhance our products and product lines. We have been evaluating different adapters, but no decision yet. Thanks for the link above.
The CTR350 that got fried was from a Amplifier DC Adapter cable that you accidently plugged into the CTR350, correct? |
No, the one that got fried was from a Tekkeon batter pack (I now successfully use a custom cable I made to prevent that problem).
The CradlePoint 350 got scrambled when I started the car, and the voltage went way low, then went way high, using the adapter supplied from 3G. While it did survive, I had to re-program it.
Note to self: Either do not leave stuff plugged in when starting car, or as a preferred option, provide well regulated, well isolated power for accessories 
Joe |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| firedude wrote: | Joe,
You wrote"it is not acceptable to directly connect the unit to an auto/marine electrical system"
I see where the MRB1000 comes with a 12 volt power supply. What type is then that you couldn't use in your vehicle?? I'll find out in the morning when mine arrives. but just curios since it said it was included (12v supply).
On edit ...ops I see where it works on 12v (which I knew), but doesn't say included. What did they expect us to use lol? Argh, I could have sworn I read that lol!
Thanks for the post Joe!
Tony |
You get a 120 volt to 12 volt converter with the MBR-1000.
If you wire up the MBR-1000 directly to a automobile/marine 12 volt electrical system, you would probably fry the unit, as those systems can go from about 10.5 volts to 16 or more volts, with good running voltage of a little over 14 volts. ie: You need good voltage regulation to avoid over-under voltage and the associated surges. Note that most 12V to 12V converters do a very poor job, if anything at all.
Joe |
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firedude
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Gotch ya and thanks Joe! Just a thought, but what about a small (low) wattage inverter for the vehicle? It of course gets its power from the vehicle light/accessory plug then use the regular power supply that comes with the 1000. Have done this many times with laptops and some other sensitive equipment including (non-evdo) routers. See a problem there? Thanks for all the info!
On edit once again......
Can't keep up with the posts! where's my coffee cup lol. I saw the inverter info Joe and thanks again! Mine haven't been pure sine, but have worked and never had a problem. In fact I use a couple Zantrex 450's in my RV when I'm dry camping (no ac power) and they have worked fine the last 5 years running what I call computer corner. Oner runs the bedroom tv and sat stuff and the other runs my entire "computer corner" which consists of 2 routers, laptop, Kodak camera dock and a few itty bitty items like phone charger etc..
Tony
Last edited by firedude on Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| firedude wrote: | Gotch ya and thanks Joe! Just a thought, but what about a small (low) wattage inverter for the vehicle? It of course gets its power from the vehicle light/accessory plug then use the regular power supply that comes with the 1000. Have done this many times with laptops and some other sensitive equipment including (non-evdo) routers. See a problem there? Thanks for all the info!
Tony |
Sure, an inverter works quite nicely. I recommend using pure sine wave inverters, They are much more expensive, but provide power that is cleaner than what you get from the power company, your equipment runs a lot cooler, you don't burn out power bricks, and they run a lot more kinds of equipment (things like laser printers, fax machines, some medical equipment wont work on a modified square wave inverter).
AIMS makes a real nice 300 watt unit for $129 that includes a USB charging port. They also have some less expensive pure sine wave units in the 150 watt and less range.
I got two of the 300 watt units. They are real nice, with thermal controlled fans. Very quiet. Silent 99.9% of the time.
Joe |
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firedude
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yep and will go take a look for them. Just what I had in mind Joe. Thanks for all the help!
Tony |
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wtleaver
EVDO User
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 34
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm...my MBR-1000 is running off a $9.00 12volt/5amp adapter I picked up from Radio Shack. I haven't had any problems with it - but am I likely to?
I've even left it running overnight without any problem. (Also put the biggest new battery in my vehicle I could when I installed the MBR-1000).
I do have a pure sine invertor, but I always thought those things would draw a heck of alot more power off the battery than is necessary. |
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firedude
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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wtleaver..
the inverters only draw what they need to run the device plus s small amount for themselves like for the cooling fans. Most have lot voltage cut-offs along with surge protection and like Joe says the true sine wave are much cleaner power than the non sine wave. Obviously the large the device and power requirement yes they can draw more, but for what we're talking about it's not much. I have one mounted under the dash of my truck and hardwired to the battery with a in line fuse. Not pure sine wave, but with the 1000 I think I'll spend a few extra bucks and replace it with a pure sine wave one. they don't have to be a real high wattage inverter either if all you're going to run is the router itself and maybe the amplifier.
Tony |
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cgerrells
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeCHecht wrote: | | cgerrells wrote: | Nice info. I'm about to do the exact same thing in my Pathfinder, but I'll be using a EVDO Direct Connect Amplifier (3 Watt) with AC Adapter with the MBR1000. The original 12v adapter that shipped with the Amp got destroyed... (My wife broke it by stacking soda against it in the cargo area... sigh) So, this time I'm hard wiring in everything.
Since you seem to know a little bit about this kind of stuff... I'm also looking to buy a solar panel that I can mount on my roof, to keep my battery from going dead if I leave all this on. What would be the power draw of everything?
Here is the info I have been able to scrape together....
EVDO Router MPR1000 12v 1.5Amps
EVDO card Sprint EX720 3.3v (is powered by router.)
EVDO AMP 12v 0.5-1.5Amps
And looking at the power supplies... couldn't I just use 1 of those to power both devices? They both seem to be 1.5 amps and that power supply can put out 20w.
Thanks for any help. |
Hello Michael,
I believe that (Ohm's Law?) states that
Volts * Amps = Watts
Watts / Volts = Amps (and so forth).
I would think that that power requirements of the MBR-1000 includes the cards you will be plugging in to it, as the power adapter for the unit has to power them as well.
The power adapter I got for the MBR-1000 actually puts out 12.5 volts.
Anyway, 20 watts / 12.5 volts = 1.6 amps, (thay actually state 1.7 amps) so you would need 2 of the power converters to power both the amp and the router.
Armed with the formulas above, you can total up the max draw of everything, and size the solar panel to fit.
Key points:
1) Do not forget that the converters run at 82% efficiency, so that will need to be factored in.
2) The sun does not always shine at 100% efficiency, and the amount of time the sun is available varies through the year. Finally, the angle of the panel to the sun will not always be straight on. Some panels use a fresnel lens pattern over the cells to help minimize the effect. Factor this in as well.
3) There will be some voltage drop from the panel to the battery. Factor this in too.
4) Make sure the panel has a blocking diode to prevent reverse current flow when the battery voltage exceeds the output of the solar panel. These days, I believe most panels have one built in.
5) If you don't mind spending additional cash, they make units to regulate the power of the solar panels back to the battery to maximize efficiency of the charge. You can actually charge a battery faster by monitoring its internal resistance, and shutting off the charge for a little bit at the right time, then turning the charge back on when the battery is optimal to continue accepting a charge. There used to be a company called "Hamilton Ferris" www.hamiltonferris.com that sold such an animal.
6) You can hook in an properly sized amp meter into the circuit, and get an exact reading of the current draw. Most multimeters can probably handle measuring the above currents.
I have successfully used solar panels on our sailboat, and once was able to go 6 months without aux power, and we where running a TV, VHS, stereo, VHF radio(s), and running lights. Carefully managed, I think I recall we did it all on 88 watts worth of panels (in the tropics).
If you are going to use AC power in your Pathfinder, I highly recommend getting a pure sine wave inverter. AIMS makes a really nice 300 watt unit with a USB port for about $129. With a pure sine wave unit, your equipment will run cooler, better (since it is generally considered to be cleaner power than you will get from the power company), with less interference, and wont burn out your chargers and laptop power bricks. It will also run more types of equipment (medical, microwave, tv's) than a modified sine wave unit.
I hope this has been helpfull. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Joe |
Good information Thanks for the great reply. Here is the panel I was looking at, http://www.solarcharger.com/Sunsei-Solar-Charger-SE-1200?sc=2&category=114 together with the http://www.solarcharger.com/s.nl/it.A/id.45/.f Doing the math, it looks like 2 of these panels would actually be needed if I wanted to power the units directly, but, I'm only looking to add a point of backup for my pathfinders battery so I don't end up with a dead car while out working. I ran the amp 24/7 for 3 months and only had a small issue when it got cold here. I guess I could get better at turning everything off when I'm not using it.... lol. Maybe that should also be in my build... a central power switch in the dash.
I'll post some pics as I get this all put together this week. |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| firedude wrote: | wtleaver..
the inverters only draw what they need to run the device plus s small amount for themselves like for the cooling fans. Most have lot voltage cut-offs along with surge protection and like Joe says the true sine wave are much cleaner power than the non sine wave. Obviously the large the device and power requirement yes they can draw more, but for what we're talking about it's not much. I have one mounted under the dash of my truck and hardwired to the battery with a in line fuse. Not pure sine wave, but with the 1000 I think I'll spend a few extra bucks and replace it with a pure sine wave one. they don't have to be a real high wattage inverter either if all you're going to run is the router itself and maybe the amplifier.
Tony |
Yup, you can get by with a real small inverter. The AC adapter for the AMP says it pulls 27 watts, and I would have to test the MBR's, as it gives a volt range of 100-240 and amp rating of 0.6 so there is no telling what it pulls, however, it is probably in the range of 25 to 30 watts.
I went with the DC to DC converter, as I recall, I ran the numbers, and the DC to DC conversion was a bit more efficient than though the inverter (plus the pure sign wave units are generally not as efficient as the modififed square wave units, and generally have a much higher no load current draw), plus, I did not want to run the inverter all the time.
Joe |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| wtleaver wrote: | Hmm...my MBR-1000 is running off a $9.00 12volt/5amp adapter I picked up from Radio Shack. I haven't had any problems with it - but am I likely to?
I've even left it running overnight without any problem. (Also put the biggest new battery in my vehicle I could when I installed the MBR-1000).
I do have a pure sine invertor, but I always thought those things would draw a heck of alot more power off the battery than is necessary. |
I don't know if you would hae trouble with the radio shack adapter. The only way to tell is to hook a meter up to it and make 4 tests:
1) Battery is almost dead (10.5 volts) : Does the unit boost the voltage to the correct level?
2) Battery is getting charged at a high rate (16+ volts). Does the unit regulate the voltage to the correct level?
3) Surge: How does the unit react when the voltage changes quickly 10-18 volts?
4) In all cases, does the unit continue to deliver an able supply of current?
Radio shack puts out some good stuff, however, all the units I looked at cost $39+ and came with spec sheets. I am not an electrical engineer, so I may be flat wrong in thinking you can get a quality unit for $9. I saw a lot of them when shopping, but none that could do regulation within my specs.
Joe |
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