Using KR1 as a 'Mobile WiFi Rental Portal'?

orbitalcomp · EVDO User Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Texas

I was thinking about this the other day, and maybe it's a crazy idea, maybe not. For those of us using Sprint without any fears of over-usage (Verizon?), we might be able to do this. I just thought I'd put this idea out there...

What I had in mind was letting people connect to my KR1 and rent usage, similar to what you would do at a hotel or Starbucks with TMo Hot Spot. I could have an open network and have the SSID something like 'RentMyWireless' or 'CheapWirelessAccess' or something to that effect, something that would stand out.

When people connect, they would be taken to a portal that gives them info about charges, payment info, etc. Of course, it would have to be PayPal, because no sane person would just float their credit card info out there like that. But let's say I offered unlimited usage for $10, for example. I could have disclaimers for this and that, service can be terminated at any time, etc.

Is there a program that can be interfaced with the KR1 to allow something like this? Seems like it would be a decent way to help subsidize my monthly bill, since I leave my KR1 on in my car all the time, and I'm not using it 24/7. Besides finding a program that can handle this, am I opening myself up to problems that are not worth it? I'm sure some people would find ways to abuse the service.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts...

CraigCraig · EVDO Heavy User Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 141

I'm pretty sure that it violates the terms of service agreement you signed. Smile

Species8472 · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject:

I charge my neighbors 10 bucks a month for the cost of running my router..... not the same idea you are looking for...but.. they all agreed not to stream in th evening.. so far working. I beleive there is a way to limit bandwidth on the KR1.. for now works fine

orbitalcomp · EVDO User Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Texas

Joe C · EVDO User Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 76

It's people like you that are going to screw the whole "unlimited" thing up with Sprint. If you want to use it heavily that's fine but abusing it by "renting" a service that you pay to use, NOT own, is stupid. You may own the card and the router, but the bandwidth is not yours to do as you please with when it comes to renting it out or sharing it like you can do with your average T1 line or something.

Species8472 · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:04 am Post subject:

Joe- Very valid point and I thought the same thing. Actually I did check with VZW and they said they did not care as long as I do not violate the limit on usage. I am running 3-4 Gig. Not sure if this is all that accurate. All of the people having access appreciiate the hi-speed BUT have no interested in gaming etc. They all access it thru their laptops for email and business stuff.

orbitalcomp · EVDO User Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Texas

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1068

It seems to me that his idea wouldn't have any more of an impact on the network than anyone else using a router. He only has a certain size pipeline to work within. I have as many as 6 people online some evenings this summer when everyone's home via my KR1. The only difference is that I don't charge my family to log on.

What if all the people who might "rent" space from him instead got their own accounts? It seems to me they would have more of a chance of affecting the network then since they'd each have equal amounts of bandwidth available to them. If this is true then it all really comes down to who's getting the money doesn't it? And then I would expect Sprint, as a company that is in business to make a profit, to not be too crazy about sharing it with just anybody with a router. One thing's for sure, Sprint certainly isn't saying no to anyone who walks in and wants to sign up for service so I don't buy the whole "going to ruin it for everyone" thing.

The TOC pretty vaguely gives them the right to put a stop to it if it affects their network. I say vaguely (it's vaguely specific) because it's written in "lawyer-ease" as such to allow them to do whatever they want. Suffice it to say if it affects the network they will shut you down.

And I have to say that I hate hearing (or reading) the "It's people like you" comments. As long as I pay my bill for UNLIMITED service and I am operating within the TOC, then give it a break please. Seriously this is not a flame attempt but why do so many people consider themselves to be the internet police deciding who "you people" are? Sprint has solutions in place to monitor and police these things. When it comes right down to it cable/DSL and any other kind of access within the realm of possibility for the average guy to afford work the same way. Heavy usage affects those around you. It's just that DSL/cable has a bigger pipeline.

I think we shouldn't attack people for having ideas that we may think are outside the box. Where would we be technology wise otherwise? The system will police itself.

EDIT: Of course this is just my opinion. Isn't it cool that we have these forums in which to share our opinions?

EDIT: Obviously orbitalcomp beat me to the punch. Smile

Nothing like being on the phone and trying to post at the same time. Multitasking took me over 30 minutes to post that! And I thought I was rolling along..........

Mackieman · EVDO Junkie Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 453

The feature you're asking for is called a captive portal, sometimes called a walled garden. There is no way to implement this with KR1 unless you have a completely separate access point that funnels all traffic to a captive portal proxy which then turns to the KR1 for Internet access. KR1 itself has no support for this.

As far as the moral reality of doing this, as far as I can tell there is nothing in Sprint's ToS that specifically prohibits using their network in this manner. There are plenty of statements about limiting access if data access is abused and so forth. As noted by Bigdave and others, there is an extremely finite amount of bandwidth on the EVDO connection even in the best of connection environments so more than five or six people will grind the thing to a halt. It seems like Sprint realizes this and doesn't specifically limit it.

Also, for funsies, when they say unlimited access, it really means unlimited ability to access, not that you can use as much as you want. Wink

orbitalcomp · EVDO User Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Texas

Well said, guys...that's pretty much sharing the same line of thought I have on the matter. I didn't know that what I was thinking of is called a 'captive portal'. Too bad the KR-1 can't handle this, it would be interesting to experiment with and see if I were to get any hits.

karlyn · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject:

jackrodgers · EVDO Addict Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 1131

Wouldn't password protecting the wifi access be enough?

You won't be able to share the connection in one period of time with that many people; however, you might have a lot of clients but restricted to certain time periods.

Also, suppose each of the 6 decided to download a large file at the same time, just as you might download 6 large files at the same time. The available download will be divided by 6 or a higher number. Thus instead of 6 people using a 1200 connection, they will each effectively be using a 200 connection.

Perhaps, and I am no legal scholar, you might bypass any legal problems by asking for donations (Paypal) to support your show on a web page that offers helpufl hints, suggestions, ideas and so on so that the income is not seen as directly involved with sharing the connection. OK, so if someone doesn't donate you don't give them the daily password.

Joe C · EVDO User Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 76

"Bigdave"

If anyone acts all high and mighty on these forums it's you. My point was pretty simple, if enough people do this then Sprint will enforce stricter ToS and they will be no better then Verizon before we know it. If I came off harsh it's because I don't like the idea of other people screwing up a good thing for the rest of us. This doesn't make me an "internet cop" it makes me someone who voiced my opinion. If you don't like it then get over it.

On top of that, you pay for unlimited access and usage of Sprint's service per their ToS. I can almost guarantee that "renting" out a service that you don't actually own will violate their ToS. Also they clearly state that they can cancel you for just about any reason they want to.

Now, as far as having only a certain size pipe to work with, you are correct. Here's the thing though, while everyone may not be able to download a large file at 1200k at the same time, they still can use as much bandwidth as they please. Say one of these people you rent it out to happens to leave large files downloading every night. With just that ONE person you would have doubled your monthly usage. Basically, what I'm getting at is no matter how you look at it your usage is going to skyrocket compared to when it was just you, or even a family of 6. You are leaving your connection open to the possibility of constant 24/7 usage.

orbitalcomp and Species8472,

I can understand your reasons for wanting to do this, to an extent, so my only advice is to ask Sprint for explicit permission to do this and get a written response from them saying they agree to it. This should cover you in case they get unhappy in the future. Otherwise you run the risk of completely losing your connection if they decide to cancel you.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Species8472 · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject:

I appreciate the opinions. When I was living at my last addy I had picked up a Wifi signal and my neighbor asked if I wanted in. He gave me a password and I gave him 15 bucks a month for access via cable. (that was FAST!)

You are correct in the observation re a number of peeps pulling data at the same time. That is why we all like the idea of utilizing the signall, not tying up a phone line. It is a super arrangement (a win/win and I am not making money from it) I had to buy the D-Link repeaters.(benefits me anyway) We do not have anyother options. One neighbor has satelite and he says my EVDO is faster. Just wait until I go Rev-A baby!

Species8472 · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject:

Understood- However I am with VZW and not Sprint. I have been able to keep my usage under 5 Gigs per month and I have no intent to violate that. With that being said, they are aware of it and we have an email exchange to back it up. If they shut me down, that is OK I will switch to Sprint. I will not abuse the TOS. I have seen post from peeps on this forum who brag about using 20Gig + a month and as far as I am concerned if someone wants to get on a users case it should be those. I would never throw a lawn mower in this grass house though. I sleep well at night. I do not charge by the Kbyte. I will respect my TOS and if they say stop I will. VZW is aware of this and they have no problem with it "yet". Very Happy