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GRonken
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Less signal strength with antenna? |
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I am using a S720, it is receiving a signal of -87, when I attach a Wison Trucker Antenna, standing in the same area, the signal goes to -89.
1) Is this an indication that the antenna may be bad?
2) If so, HOW do I check it before ordering a new one (it is a year old but has been on top of my motor home and I have had to replace the little rods twice from tree limbs hitting it.
3) Should I not be as concerned about the signal strength and do some checking for download/upload speeds with it attached/detached?
Thanks .... BTW - it works fantastic in the KR1. I am getting 1250 downloads, I am in the country, log home with thick walls and I travel. |
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GRonken
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: Forgot to add - VPN success |
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| I also was able to connect via Cisco VPN to system for a client and now I am able to truley develope applications while traveling. Using the GoToMeeting software I am able to instruct application use, colloborate with my partner, in fact we both access the remote system and work on it together, and actually trouple shoot for clients and they aren't even aware that I am not in the office .... it si GREAT! |
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WPSANTENNAS-MATT
EVDO Heavy User
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Rochester Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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The RF adapter may be defective however if you have had a couple of tree strikes with the antenna there is a good chance it has been damaged.
Typically when an antenna or RF adapter fails the signal goes immediately to no service when the external antenna is connected. This is not true for all devices but it is for most.
Try connecting the external antenna to the S720 while it is powered off. Check the signal level once it has been powered back up. This occasionally makes a difference in the signal as it picks up the external antenna on startup.
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: antenna worse? |
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I am also using the s720 with the truckers antenna and a smart tech amplifier and see negative results. With the s620 I used a direct connection and got good results, with the s720 it doesnt even want to connect. I am now using the amplifier as it was designed (with the brick type inside antenna) and am getting good results. I am also using the linksys router as my DV9000 doesnt have pcmci (shrug)
Also the card is roaming throughout Wyoming on I- 80 where I previously couldn"t. I have the 20224 prl because I couldn't figure out how to open the new prl file with my old laptop. |
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 337
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Less signal strength with antenna? |
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| GRonken wrote: | I am using a S720, it is receiving a signal of -87, when I attach a Wison Trucker Antenna, standing in the same area, the signal goes to -89.
1) Is this an indication that the antenna may be bad?
3) Should I not be as concerned about the signal strength and do some checking for download/upload speeds with it attached/detached?
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(1)
Unless there's truly something quite wrong with the antenna (singleband antenna being used in the 'other' band for example), I suspect that the lack of improvement may be due to cable loss. Take a look at the cable and see what it claims to be. RG58 comes in a number of varieties but RG58/U gets used a lot. It can show .2 dB/foot loss at 850 MHz and almost twice that at PCS frequencies. If you have 20' of cable between the antenna and the card you could have 4-8 dB excess loss. This is very possibly more than the difference between the card antenna, which probably isn't oriented optimumly and has alignment loss, and the Wilson which hopefully is at least as good as a dipole.
The above might make it sound like the external antenna is a bad idea but that is almost never the case. If you can use the cable length to advantage and get the antenna location high and open, relative to the internal card antenna, you can easily gain more than the cable loss and likely reduce the variation in signal strength while you're at it. That said, generally no more than the minimum necessary cable length should be used.
(3)
You should be concerned about signal strength, though -90 dBm signal should still be enough to get you good EVDO performance. Signal strength is probable the best 1st order indicator of expected system performance, though it's far from the only one. Degree of site sharing, distortion and other forms of interference are also crucial. But if you don't have enough signal you can be confident that things won't work well.
n6gn |
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GRonken
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Thanks for the reply's |
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I never thought of the additional stability with the exterior antenna. The cable is coming thru the window, it closes on it pretty hard, hope I haven't damaged it. I will look at it really close.
We are in the country, surrounded by trees. I originally had the antenna at the peak of the roof, using an extension cable. Felt that I wasn't receiving any better signal vs the loss from the additional cable, so I brought it down to the lower eves, where I could reach it easier, as well as eliminate the extension cable. Just seems as if the card, with no antenna is receiving a somewhat better reception.
NOTE: Has anyone had a problem plgging the adapter cable into the S720, it feels like it is in all the way, but still can see part of the leading shaft, like it can't go all the way in to the insulation part ...... I am reluctant to muscle it, it is a brand new card and I'm not sure that Booster Antenna would appreciate or cover that. besides, i would be without a card for the return time !
I was hoping there was an easy way to take the antenna to someone and have them check it for funtionabilty. I guess I could purchase another one and try it and return it if it isn't any different (wish I knew of someone in the Columbus, Ohioa area who had one i could try). I would like to make sure that it is functioning prior to heading for Florida, where we will propably need it more than we do here at home.
Possibly I should try one of the small power antennas, but hesitate to purchase, if I'm not even sure that it will inprove performance. Don't get me wrong, we are HAPPY with it without the antenna here at home, I just need to make sure that the antenna is working prior to heading out. I understand that someone like Booster Antenna has a great return policy, but I don't want to take advantage of it, just to see if it will work. Besides, with the exterior Wilson Antenna I have the additional ability to plug in my cell phones in those fringe areas as we travel. |
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if any of these guys who insist the direct connect works have actually tried it with the s720? I also am not having success with it maybe because the card receives evdo/1xrtt simultaneously?
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n6gn
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 337
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| gil wrote: | | I wonder if any of these guys who insist the direct connect works have actually tried it with the s720? I also am not having success with it maybe because the card receives evdo/1xrtt simultaneously? |
You bring up a good point. I have a 620 which I have both used and measured, but I've never seen a 720 so can't be sure that it is the same. In my opinion the connector used on the 620 is not a terribly good design. One problem I see with it is that a little bit of excess lateral force (jerking it sideways rather than pulling it straight out) can bend the outer conductor contacts. The adapter cable I have has a larger diameter "doughnut" intended to relieve the strain of such occurances but it really doesn't do the job. My outer contacts are already bent.
MaximumSignal's suggestion about trying the adapter w/o antenna is a good one. I would add that you need to wait on the order of 30 seconds before taking a reading after making any change. Most RSSI detector/algorithms report a smoothed signal strength number so you won't see the full affects of a change for some time after the change.
I did measure the on/off ratio of the external-cable-activated-antenna-switch (probably a PIN diode) and found that my card showed about -25 dB drop in signal when the external cable was inserted. If you don't see something on that order of change, it is a likely that your cable/connector (or much more remote possibility--card) is bad.
Relative to pinching the cable in the window, you probably have to smash it awfully hard to cause a complete failure. Smashing it slightly will no doubt put a capacitive bump in the transmission line, decreasing the line impedance in that section, increasing the SWR and attenuation slightly but that probably is not going to be a really big deal until just before the cable is actually severed--- which you should have a hint of by looking externally.
I also was going to comment about locations surrounded by trees and vegetation. My experience and measurements, as well as those published in a variety of places, show a great deal of seasonal difference due to foliage. Cold days after leaves fall on hardwoods are generally the best, warm spring days after a rain with all leaves present is possibly the worst. I have seen 25 dB difference between the two on relatively short paths --1000 feet, for example. Wind tends to make for variation but generally also serves to shake off any water standing on leaves and can help slightly, on average. Getting an antenna higher can serve (sometimes) to reduce the total stretch of foliage between the user and the cell site (.25 dB/foot is a good starting estimate). This is a good thing(tm) both for total attenuation and also for variation due to all the mechanisms described above.
n6gn |
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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A device does not receive EVDO and 1xrtt at the same time. Your device be it phone or card will first look for a preffered signal .if it is strong enough to be usable and provide a stable connection. In this case the preferred signal being an EVDO signal . When it cannot find an EVDO signal it then defaults to the other available signal that being 1xrtt with a card . When the EVDO signal is not strong enough to lock in, the card will jump back and forth between EVDO and 1xrtt. If you are having the same problem with your S720 . Try the test i described above to determine if you have a proper connection at the card
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I was operating under this assumption that the device recieves both signals simultaneously because when I hover the cursor over the signal bars it shows separate boxes for evdo and ixrtt and gives separate db readings.
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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My problem may be thaI have been using Wilsons smart tech amplifier(non-direct connect) with a direct adapter. I had great success with that on the s620 but the s720 while showing a dramatic boost does not function properly.(frequent disconnects0
I am currently using the amplifier as it was designed with the brick type iunside antenna and so far have been connected on I-80 from Salt lake to my present location mm-150 in Iowa.
I suppose I should test the direct adapter without the amplifier for relevance.
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I dont know how accurate <a href="http://speedtest.dslreports.com"><img border=0 src="http://www.dslreports.com/im/20836536/45150.png"></a>
Above is without antenna followed by 2 tests with that resulted in 217/65, 471/47 then immediately retested without adapter and got 766/47.
Of course I am rolling about 65 mph and could get similar readings with or without sitting still. btw I am using the linksys router. Maybe I should try in my pcmci laptop to check -db
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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<a href="http://speedtest.dslreports.com"><img border=0 src="http://www.dslreports.com/im/20837378/68680.png"></a> without antenna then got 857/121 with. Of course this is anecdotal and circumstancial but it seems to me the card is better without the direct adapter.
I play toontown with my 5 y/o and it is upsetting to get dropped so I find ways to stay connected. Right now I am happy with the non-direct connect method with the s720 although direct connecting the 620 was by far the best.
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WPSANTENNAS-MATT
EVDO Heavy User
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Rochester Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| gil wrote: | My problem may be thaI have been using Wilsons smart tech amplifier(non-direct connect) with a direct adapter. I had great success with that on the s620 but the s720 while showing a dramatic boost does not function properly.(frequent disconnects0
I am currently using the amplifier as it was designed with the brick type iunside antenna and so far have been connected on I-80 from Salt lake to my present location mm-150 in Iowa.
I suppose I should test the direct adapter without the amplifier for relevance. |
What model Wilson unit are you using?
The serial number on the back starts with the 6 digit model number.
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gil
EVDO User
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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8012010113856 The label is worn mobile wireless dual band amplifier cellular/pcs 824-894/1850-1900MHz
It came with 1 large brick type inside antenna with velcro to fasten it to the side of car seat for close positioning to phone while using. Also has 1 small patch type connector with corresponding velcro.
It is on Wilsons website here http://wilsonelectronics.com/ViewProduct.php?ID=6
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WPSANTENNAS-MATT
EVDO Heavy User
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Rochester Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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The issue that you are having with the connection may be due to the fact that you are using a repeater unit as an inline amplifier.
The 801201 is a wireless repeater unit. You should be using the model 811201 inline amplifier if you are connecting directly to the unit.
This may have worked in the past with different phones or data cards however the repeater is not designed to be connected directly to any device. By doing so you are running the risk of damaging the data card and possibly the repeater unit itself.
Have you tried placing the interior patch antenna close to the data card?
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