KR1 and GPSd Non-Technical Discussion

morpheus · EVDO User Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

I am very interested in the application side of the GPSd possibilities and will happily let our low level folks work out the details (thanks guys). So far it is my understanding that the GPS daemon would run on as a service on the KR1 and would communicate directly with the GPS that is attached to the USB port (or the serial port if you dare). The GPS daemon would then service requests from other devices on the network by providing GPS information in a one-to-many relationship. Am I understanding this correctly so far?
_________________
-morpheus-

Michael · Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:22 am Post subject:

Yep, you got that right.

Read about a StompBox. It is a custom built EVDO/WiFi/GPS router that does some real cool things. The KR1, does everything the StompBox does, except one thing. GPS integration. The KR1, has everything needed to technically make this work (e.g. a USB Port). The Garmin GPS hooks up to the USB port. Once the GPSd daemon is running, a program can telenet into the deamon and the GPS coordinates are returned. This happens in real time and can easily be integrated with GoogleMaps to show the real time location of the KR1. Put the KR1 in a vehicle, plug in a GPS to the USB port and you can see that this opens the doors for some VERY cool applications and uses.

We are already custom building StompBoxes for a company named OZOcar (hybrid limo company in New York). There are MANY other transportation and trucking customers, Tour buses, RV'rs that would buy KR1s, if the GPS functionality was available.

It is very expensive to get real-time positioning of vehicles with current products - a GPS enabled KR1 & EVDO card, would allow this to be very inexpensive and open the doors for tons of new applications.
_________________
EVDO :: EVDO News :: EVDO Antennas :: Buy Verizon :: Buy Sprint :: EVDO Amplifier

morpheus · EVDO User Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

Next question: Does the daemon have the functionality to post information rather than just service a request? I believe this model to be better suited for host sites that track remote nodes. It also eliminates the need for poking a hole in your firewall. Do you know of a web site that I should start my research?
_________________
-morpheus-

tz1 · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:48 am Post subject:

http://gpsd.berlios.de/ is the gpsd homepage and had the documentation.

My lightweight version only sends the data stream from the GPS unit over the network.

If by "post information" you mean using a web client to enter date into a remote web page, no.

As far as firewalls, gpsd has a standard port, but any port could be used.

AgentM · EVDO Newbie Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 4

I was thinking about the GPS/KR1 integration challenge, and remembered some devices I've seen in the past which allow RS-232 communication over ethernet. After a couple minutes of searching I've found the devices:
http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products?pnlid=6&id=multinet
http://www.arcelect.com/EtherPoll_EPL-1_Single_Port_SCADA_Serial_Server.htm

and on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NETRS2321-NETRS232-1-1-Port-RS232-Serial-Ethernet_W0QQitemZ5663039674QQcategoryZ88433QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

USB over ethernet:
http://www.amplicon.co.uk/dr-prod3.cfm/subsecid/10108/secid/4/groupId/11333.htm
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/usb_server.html

Most of these units are over $100, perhaps there are cheaper devices out there, I didn't look for very long. But it looks like a possible solution. I know it won't work the same way as GPSd... but perhaps you can mimick what GPSd does with a scripting language that can be run from the KR1.

tz1 · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:46 am Post subject:

There are also some java+ethernet microservers that have RS232 options, which I think are cheaper, or other integrated microcontroller setups which might be able to convert GPS to ethernet for less than these modules, but they are still more expensive. It really needs to be cheaper than the existing Stompbox solution.

The KR1 has an external serial port (the diagnostic port - easy to make and cheap adapter cable) which already has proven capable of handling GPS streams from a standard RS232 NMEA device.

It also has the USB port, and would just need to recognise the GPS device as serial and properly configure it. I don't have a usb GPS so I can't test it, and some might work, others not.

The problem is software, more specifically installing or running user executables (a web page that could upload something and execute it would suffice, or if I could generate a firmware update image that would load properly). It takes effort to get an executable into the router to run now.

morpheus · EVDO User Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

I need to stop and ask a question here. What is the GPS/KR1 challenge? The possibilities seem endless. My original intent starting this thread was to start thinking about the applications that could use this added functionality. I am a goal oriented person and need a target to shoot at. Is the target to track a vehicle “real time” on the internet? Or is the target a new “stompbox”?

Also, can you believe the number of ways one can go about solving a problem? It is just amazing to see all the options that exist today. It all there because of people like those in this forum, spending time playing around with the technology that is available to them. Thanks guys …
_________________
-morpheus-

morpheus · EVDO User Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

I am going to try and answer my own question. It looks like the original goal was to place an access point in a vehicle and provide network access to multiple workstations. Applications were added to make use of this mobile network. A GPS was added and linked to Google Maps to create a “real time” navigation system. The second application that was added was a webcam that captured pictures of what the passengers would see if they were looking out the windshield.

The GPS idea is quite unique in that it offers a real time navigation system like no other. Your coordinates are placed on a map that is updated daily. In theory, you could be viewing a position on a map at that same time the map is updated. You are not looking at a map that was shipped to you on a CD (dead data), the view you are seeing is current and delivered to you just moments ago. Likewise, the photo you are looking at is exactly what the people see when they look out the windshield. It’s like you are traveling with them.

So here are some more questions:

1. Does the GPS belong in the router?
2. Where does the camera fit?
3. What else could we add to the project?

Since I seem to be talking to myself <smile> I will answer these questions and invite others the opportunity to respond with their ideas.

Answers:

1. Yes, most definitely, real time navigation in a box. No doubt, make it and it will sell.
2. Cameras need to post images to an FTP site. Most of them now have this as a standard feature.
3. A weather station to show the climate conditions Idea

.

Believe it or not, I came up with the same idea about a month ago and came to this web site looking for how I might transport the data to the net. I was very excited to see talk of the KR1 having a ship date that was “soon”.

However, I am not interested in the “real time” application (cool but not what I am after). In fact, I don’t really want anyone to know where I am at any given time (scary). I am more interested in tracking where I have been, what it looked like and what it felt like.

Gentlemen, we need another box … any interest?
_________________
-morpheus-

tz1 · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:49 am Post subject:

There are both wireless and ethernet network cameras available.

Within the limitations of wireless (do you want it going outside the vehicle, how far, etc.), I find it works well. My pda can view maps or GPS data untethered. My PDA has a serial port, but the router is more convienient, and newer laptops either don't have serial ports (except via USB or other card), or they are cumbersome.

In general, having GPS available is going to be all or nothing - you will need it at the time you need to remember the location. It need not go out to the internet - the firewall should work.

The only limitation of the KR1 is that it isn't a really fast processor. I'm toying with encrypting the GPS stream, but even that might be a problem. (A password might be easier, but should be challenge-response to be secure).

morpheus · EVDO User Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

I was wondering about the performance impact on the router. I wouldn’t think serial communications would be a problem for the router - encryption is another thing.

It is important to me that the data is collected regardless of network availability or equipment failure - for me, this means loggers. It also means redundant devices and a redundant data model. This was a lot easier to do than I thought it would be. However, you need another computer to act as your controller.

You can buy Ethernet based web cams (cabled or wireless) that have an OS installed and can be managed via port 80. They also have event systems that will allow you to set triggers of various types that will perform actions when fired - such as FTPing an image to a server. I was amazed of the affordability of these devices.

I have this modeled on a laptop and table PC. I would like to move it into a “black box” that could be attached to the network but lack the unix skills to do so. The device would need an OS, two serial ports, an Ethernet port, and auxiliary storage (memory). It would need to communicate with a GPS and weather instrument via the serial ports and log the data in a circular buffer that would hold a weeks worth of data. It would need to have a scheduler that would FTP text files of the logs to a web site for final processing.

We could use the GPSd on the KR1 but why overload the box when we will need another box anyway? I still think adding GPSd to the KR1 is a worth while project, my requirements are beyond that solution.
_________________
-morpheus-

jackrodgers · EVDO Addict Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 1131

I was able to capture the GPS data using Filemaker and a Troi Serial Plugin. It took a bit of study but I discovered how to break out the longs and lats. I used a Bluetooth gps device.

I saved the data in a record using a button click to trigger the script. I could then add any fields I wanted to the record for data collection. Photographs can also be stored in the record as well as maps and other graphics.

Since Filemaker can serve pages to browsers or serve itself on the web to anyone with Filemaker, there might be some advantages using Filemaker not available otherwise. I am sure other pro level database might offer similar features.

Michael · Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:

We need a handful of people to watch us later tonight around 5:30pm CST for around an hour and then again around 7:30pm CST for 45 minutes (as we return).

If you have Google Earth send an email to (mike at EVDOinfo.com), and we will email you the settings, so you can watch us in real time (track us with our GPS hooked up to our KR1 - VERY cool). We only need 5 people or so to participate, thanks!

_________________
EVDO :: EVDO News :: EVDO Antennas :: Buy Verizon :: Buy Sprint :: EVDO Amplifier