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WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400

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evdoman
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400 Reply with quote

The MBR 1400 configuration screens say that you can't use WiFi As WAN + the 5ghz broadcast option. Is this true? Any workaround? I ask because I use my smartphone hotspot with unlimited data as my internet connection via WiFi As WAN, but I want to stream HD via from my NAS device to TVs in the house using the router. My understanding is that 5ghz would do this much better (I'm getting stuttering issues with HD content using 2.4ghz), but the router won't allow it. Ideas? Is there another router that has WiFi As WAN capabilities but would be more suitable for whole-house HD streaming via a NAS device? Thanks!
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cradlepoint-scott
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400 Reply with quote

evdoman wrote:
The MBR 1400 configuration screens say that you can't use WiFi As WAN + the 5ghz broadcast option. Is this true? Any workaround? I ask because I use my smartphone hotspot with unlimited data as my internet connection via WiFi As WAN, but I want to stream HD via from my NAS device to TVs in the house using the router. My understanding is that 5ghz would do this much better (I'm getting stuttering issues with HD content using 2.4ghz), but the router won't allow it. Ideas? Is there another router that has WiFi As WAN capabilities but would be more suitable for whole-house HD streaming via a NAS device? Thanks!


What FW are you running?
What specific configuration screens are you referring to?
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evdoman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400 Reply with quote

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
What FW are you running?
What specific configuration screens are you referring to?


v4.1.1

In the Advanced WiFi Settings (bottom of Network Settings / WiFi / Local Networks page) when you move from 20mhz to 20/40mhz in the Channel Width setting, it warns you that using WiFi As Wan will force 20mhz. I was confusing this with the 2.4ghz/5ghz option. However, it's still relevant, as 40mhz will perform better... is there no way to force 40mhz while using WiFi As WaAN?

With respect to 2.4ghz vs 5ghz... I'm a bit clueless in this department. Is there no way to have it run both concurrently? I ask because it seems that many devices in my home/office won't work with the 5gz, and yet I want the range/speed for those that do. Is there another router I can buy that would handle WiFi As WAN and run *both* 2.4ghz *and* 5ghz?

One way or the other, my objective is to boost in-network HD video streaming speeds, while still allowing WiFi As WAN and my smartphone as the 4G LTE connection to operate.
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cradlepoint-scott
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400 Reply with quote

evdoman wrote:
cradlepoint-scott wrote:
What FW are you running?
What specific configuration screens are you referring to?


v4.1.1

In the Advanced WiFi Settings (bottom of Network Settings / WiFi / Local Networks page) when you move from 20mhz to 20/40mhz in the Channel Width setting, it warns you that using WiFi As Wan will force 20mhz. I was confusing this with the 2.4ghz/5ghz option. However, it's still relevant, as 40mhz will perform better... is there no way to force 40mhz while using WiFi As WaAN?

With respect to 2.4ghz vs 5ghz... I'm a bit clueless in this department. Is there no way to have it run both concurrently? I ask because it seems that many devices in my home/office won't work with the 5gz, and yet I want the range/speed for those that do. Is there another router I can buy that would handle WiFi As WAN and run *both* 2.4ghz *and* 5ghz?

One way or the other, my objective is to boost in-network HD video streaming speeds, while still allowing WiFi As WAN and my smartphone as the 4G LTE connection to operate.


I'll start with your overall issue, which is that you need a dual-band router. In other words a router that supports both 2.4ghz AND 5ghz at the same time. Unfortunately none of our products currently support that.

Have you tried different channels in the 2.4ghz mode to see if that helps with the video jitters? Not knowing your environment, I suspect you are seeing interference, either by a neighbor's router, microwave or some appliance that is inbetween the router and destination.

As far as the 20Mhz vs 40Mhz and Wifi-As-Wan, there is a long technical reason, but the short answer comes down to the fact that the radio that we use just does not support it.
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evdoman
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: WiFi As WAN + 5ghz on MBR1400 Reply with quote

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
I'll start with your overall issue, which is that you need a dual-band router. In other words a router that supports both 2.4ghz AND 5ghz at the same time. Unfortunately none of our products currently support that.


Thanks. I doubt you'll remember, given the number of people you help here, but if you stumble across a good fitting option sold elsewhere, please let me know.

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
Have you tried different channels in the 2.4ghz mode to see if that helps with the video jitters? Not knowing your environment, I suspect you are seeing interference, either by a neighbor's router, microwave or some appliance that is inbetween the router and destination.


Yes. I used inSSIDer3 to check out the local environment and look for conflicts. I'm pretty isolated here, so I wasn't surprised to find that there's nothing notable interfering. The TVs I want to stream the HD to aren't right next to the router, so range is a factor, hence my desire to use 5Ghz or whatever will help extend the range.

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
As far as the 20Mhz vs 40Mhz and Wifi-As-Wan, there is a long technical reason, but the short answer comes down to the fact that the radio that we use just does not support it.


Gotcha. I figured as much. Similar to my request in point #1, if you happen to think of something that might work for me (must be compatible with WiFi As WAN), please give me a heads up.

Thanks for your insight, not just now, but over the years. These forums have been my go-to source for as long as I can remember.
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cradlepoint-scott
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evdoman wrote:
The TVs I want to stream the HD to aren't right next to the router, so range is a factor, hence my desire to use 5Ghz or whatever will help extend the range.


Be careful. Going to 5Ghz may not extend your Wifi range. Matter of fact 5Ghz does not penetrate very well, so if you have walls and/or floors between your router and TVs the signal strength will go down dramatically.
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evdoman
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
evdoman wrote:
The TVs I want to stream the HD to aren't right next to the router, so range is a factor, hence my desire to use 5Ghz or whatever will help extend the range.


Be careful. Going to 5Ghz may not extend your Wifi range. Matter of fact 5Ghz does not penetrate very well, so if you have walls and/or floors between your router and TVs the signal strength will go down dramatically.


Ah, so it's one of those situations where it improves max speed but not penetration? I think I knew that but wasn't thinking about it. I have many walls/objects, so your advice is critical here.

I guess going from 20mhz to 40mhz would be the one improvement I should seek? Or is that a similar tradeoff?

I know they sell specialized routers meant to stream HD content within a home/office network without using the internet connection. What do they use to accomplish that? Ultimately, that's all I'm looking for, but I'd prefer to have the same router also able to handle my WiFi As WAN connection so it can all be on one network instead of needing to run two separate ones.

Does that make sense?
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cradlepoint-scott
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evdoman wrote:
cradlepoint-scott wrote:
evdoman wrote:
The TVs I want to stream the HD to aren't right next to the router, so range is a factor, hence my desire to use 5Ghz or whatever will help extend the range.


Be careful. Going to 5Ghz may not extend your Wifi range. Matter of fact 5Ghz does not penetrate very well, so if you have walls and/or floors between your router and TVs the signal strength will go down dramatically.


Ah, so it's one of those situations where it improves max speed but not penetration? I think I knew that but wasn't thinking about it. I have many walls/objects, so your advice is critical here.

I guess going from 20mhz to 40mhz would be the one improvement I should seek? Or is that a similar tradeoff?

I know they sell specialized routers meant to stream HD content within a home/office network without using the internet connection. What do they use to accomplish that? Ultimately, that's all I'm looking for, but I'd prefer to have the same router also able to handle my WiFi As WAN connection so it can all be on one network instead of needing to run two separate ones.

Does that make sense?


You might want to look at a 802.11ac router. I don't know if they will have a Wifi-as-WAN but they may have a Wifi bridge in which you can extend the reach of your network.
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evdoman
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
You might want to look at a 802.11ac router. I don't know if they will have a Wifi-as-WAN but they may have a Wifi bridge in which you can extend the reach of your network.


I have a spare MBR95. I know I can use that to bridge, but then I'd have to give the signal coming from it a new SSID to avoid confusing devices - correct? And because of this, my NAS device (from which the HD videos would stream) wouldn't be accessible from both routers (SSIDs) - correct? Sorry again for being a bit amateur in this department.
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MGD4me
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Joined: 17 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

evdoman...

Quote:
I used inSSIDer3 to check out the local environment and look for conflicts.


Just be aware that inSSIDer is only monitoring the WiFi channels for radio signals, but does not 'see' other sources of possible interference, such as cordless ohones, microwave ovens, etc.

It is therefore helpful in choosing a less congested WiFi channel, in the presence of other WiFi signals only. You would need a spectrum analyzer to narrow down other types of interferring RF signals.
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evdoman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cradlepoint-scott wrote:
You might want to look at a 802.11ac router. I don't know if they will have a Wifi-as-WAN but they may have a Wifi bridge in which you can extend the reach of your network.


I read about 802.11ac routers today, bringing your suggestion above to mind. Do you know of any current or planned 802.11ac routers that contain Wifi-as-WAN? Hoping something has come into existence since your post. If not, is your guess that it's just a matter of time? Thanks!
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evdoman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still trying to figure out a way to boost my range and interested in WiFi AC as the means. I think I saw that some routers now allow a SIM card to be plugged directly into the router, bypassing the need for WiFi as Wan (WAW). I have a grandfathered unlimited-data Verizon account that currently uses a smartphone + hotspot and WAW to power my MBR1400 connection. Are there any routers would allow me to just take out the SIM and skip the phone and hotspot all together, or will removing the SIM and not using it in the smartphone somehow be incompatible with the grandfathered data? If I could skip the WAW, I could kill off the $30/month fee for the hotspot and save a few hundred $ per year.

A corollary question is whether any such SIM-capable router also broadcasts WiFi AC.

Also, while I keep using my MBR1400 and the current setup (WAW powered connection), could I extend my range by plugging in a WiFi AC access point to one of the ports and use that to broadcast my signal instead of the on-board MBR1400 antennas?

Any help on any point would be greatly appreciated!
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smithandwest
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't help much with the router question other than to say there are some Cradlepoint routers with built in modem - those I believe you can just take your sim from your phone and put it in there. It's expensive though. I also have the MBR1400 and occasionally use my phone's unlimited data on it as well via wifi as wan since it's 4g and since my unlimited 3g modem is loaned out to a family member. What I will say is that if you are using an android phone, you can drop the $30 hotspot anyway and go with something like FoxFi. Costs a few dollars one time, not monthly. I've been using it since they teamed up with PDAnet to provide wifi, before that I used PdaNet but it was only capable of providing a usb internet connection which means it only worked with my laptop. I have it installed on my mom's phone as well (unlimited data on 4g) - she uses it 3 days a week, 4 hrs a day, at dialysis - so it works very well. The center's wifi blocks video streaming but with her phone as a hotspot and her tablet she can watch all the netflix she wants without a data cap, and she only pays verizon for her voice and data, does not pay any additional for the hotspot feature. Smile
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evdoman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smithandwest wrote:
Can't help much with the router question other than to say there are some Cradlepoint routers with built in modem - those I believe you can just take your sim from your phone and put it in there. It's expensive though. I also have the MBR1400 and occasionally use my phone's unlimited data on it as well via wifi as wan since it's 4g and since my unlimited 3g modem is loaned out to a family member. What I will say is that if you are using an android phone, you can drop the $30 hotspot anyway and go with something like FoxFi. Costs a few dollars one time, not monthly. I've been using it since they teamed up with PDAnet to provide wifi, before that I used PdaNet but it was only capable of providing a usb internet connection which means it only worked with my laptop. I have it installed on my mom's phone as well (unlimited data on 4g) - she uses it 3 days a week, 4 hrs a day, at dialysis - so it works very well. The center's wifi blocks video streaming but with her phone as a hotspot and her tablet she can watch all the netflix she wants without a data cap, and she only pays verizon for her voice and data, does not pay any additional for the hotspot feature. Smile


Thanks! I'm familiar with FoxFi but I read that to avoid having the account banned for abuse, you must pay for the "Broadband Connect" feature because the older contracts assumed that all data was being used by the phone only unless you had that feature. I know that newer contracts and phones come with hotspot included free (no longer require paying for hotspot access), but as this is an older non-renewed contract, I'm worried. How sure are you that I'd be safe dumping the Broadband Connect and continuing to use dozens of GB per month? Really appreciate your help!
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smithandwest
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evdoman wrote:
smithandwest wrote:
Can't help much with the router question other than to say there are some Cradlepoint routers with built in modem - those I believe you can just take your sim from your phone and put it in there. It's expensive though. I also have the MBR1400 and occasionally use my phone's unlimited data on it as well via wifi as wan since it's 4g and since my unlimited 3g modem is loaned out to a family member. What I will say is that if you are using an android phone, you can drop the $30 hotspot anyway and go with something like FoxFi. Costs a few dollars one time, not monthly. I've been using it since they teamed up with PDAnet to provide wifi, before that I used PdaNet but it was only capable of providing a usb internet connection which means it only worked with my laptop. I have it installed on my mom's phone as well (unlimited data on 4g) - she uses it 3 days a week, 4 hrs a day, at dialysis - so it works very well. The center's wifi blocks video streaming but with her phone as a hotspot and her tablet she can watch all the netflix she wants without a data cap, and she only pays verizon for her voice and data, does not pay any additional for the hotspot feature. Smile


Thanks! I'm familiar with FoxFi but I read that to avoid having the account banned for abuse, you must pay for the "Broadband Connect" feature because the older contracts assumed that all data was being used by the phone only unless you had that feature. I know that newer contracts and phones come with hotspot included free (no longer require paying for hotspot access), but as this is an older non-renewed contract, I'm worried. How sure are you that I'd be safe dumping the Broadband Connect and continuing to use dozens of GB per month? Really appreciate your help!


All I can say is that my mom and I both are grandfathered into unlimited plans and mine at least can't be capped, throttled (other than their network optimization on 3g), or supposedly terminated for using too much. There may be some unlimited plans that came after mine that did have some other terms like for throttling, and I can't be sure that those don't have some other terms for higher use but I'm not aware of any. I've had mine for several years, my mom maybe 3 or 4. I have never paid Verizon for a tethering or hotspot plan on my phone, just for the voice and data.

At one time Verizon and other providers were blocking PdaNet and FoxFi, took it off the play store, or trying to scare people into not using it, so it's possible they were terminating some contracts for it, then the FCC (or FTC?) said Verizon couldn't tell users how they could use their phones in one of the spectrum deals - this also meant not blocking PdaNet/FoxFi or it's (over)use ...don't quote me on that, I may have those details mixed up but that's the gist of it... and then it was available again in the Play store. However there are other carriers that do still block it, or give you some message that you must get their tethering plan (T-Mobile is one). The most I've probably used in a month is around 12 gb, average is probably 5-6 gb, since I do have another unlimited line and get good 3g speeds on it, and I expect my mom uses at least 12 gb a month even if she has her netflix set for the lower quality / less data setting. I would do some searching around to see if anyone has had problems with Verizon and getting dropped by using it.

I know how important keeping that unlimited plan is - I bought my new Galaxy S4 phone off of eBay when I wanted to upgrade so I could keep my unlimited data and gave my old one, Droid Razr Maxx, to my mom so she could keep her unlimited data and have 4g. To get a new phone under contract, I would've saved $300 on the phone but paid at least an additional $720 over the two year contract because of the new shared plan and only get 2 gb of data!
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