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Osage
EVDO Junkie


Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: A question about various wireless telco maps.

In terns of background, I have been happy with Verizon coverage maps. And I have found them to be very accurate.

But before I get up on any high horses and say therefore Verizon is best for everyone else, let me renounce that fallacy as false false and false. Because a given Wireless telco's coverage varies more due to location location and location. And when you the reader looks at this post, the probability that you live where I do, namely Boone Co, Indiana, is vanishingly small when this forum deals mostly with 3G and 4G data issues on a US and international scale.

As I ask another question about various wireless telco's coverage maps and their accuracy. Because now, all such coverage maps are not single issue maps, but seek to be a single application that seek to answer all possible qustions for all users of a given wireless telcos. (1) Such map seek to predict your basic voice coverage for both 3G and 4G cell phones. (2) Such maps seek to predict your 3G and 4G data coverage
in a given area.

As I found, from personal experince, the wireless telco's that totally lied and disapointed me in my local area, were those that predicted I would have a strong 3G data coverage signal, and at the same time a marginal
3G voice signal.

As I ask, how can we have a strong 3G data signal without an equally strong 3G voice signal?

Can anyone answer that question?
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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 1066
Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject:

3G or better defined on CDMA networks as EVDO, Evolution Data Optimized, it is a DATA network - not voice. If you look at at a field test screen using VZACCess there are two components to that data. The top portion is voice, the bottom portion is data. They differ in RSSI and ECIO. Don't confuse the two.
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Osage
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject:

Jim_in_VA wrote:
3G or better defined on CDMA networks as EVDO, Evolution Data Optimized, it is a DATA network - not voice. If you look at at a field test screen using VZACCess there are two components to that data. The top portion is voice, the bottom portion is data. They differ in RSSI and ECIO. Don't confuse the two.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Jim_in_ VA, you failed to answer the question, INMO opinion, as the question transends just the CDMA based techologies and the TDMA based technologies.

As I still ask, how, in any given area can we have marginal 3G voice coverage and excellent 3G data coverage?

When its been nothing but true for me in my long term term experiences, that without good and proven 3G voice data, a given user will also have piss poor 3G data results and maybe without exceptions. As I have found instead, anytime a wireless telco promises me good 3G data coverage without promising me equally good voice coverage, I will find a wireless telco whose data coverages maps are totally fiction and totally bogus.

You have still failed explain why 3G voice will deliver any better signal than 3G Data.
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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject:

EVDO does not support voice ...got it? Can you use it it to make a call with a IP device like Magicjack? yes. But a cellphone from Verizon or Sprint does not use EVDO to make a call. Educate yourself.
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Last edited by Jim_in_VA on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Osage
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject:

[quote="Jim_in_VA"]EVDO does not support voice ...got it?[/quote}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When in a word, no JIM, no I don't agree. As IMHO, 3G voice and data technolgies are just the same but opposite sides of the same coin.

As I also scream bullshit Jim, when I found even 400 Kbits/ sec 3G connection would support an excellent quality VOIP voice connection.
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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject:

you really need to educate yourself. EVDO is DATA only. Cell phones do not use EVDO for voice.
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bcltoys
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject:

[quote="Osage"]
Jim_in_VA wrote:
EVDO does not support voice ...got it?[/quote}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When in a word, no JIM, no I don't agree. As IMHO, 3G voice and data technolgies are just the same but opposite sides of the same coin.

As I also scream bullshit Jim, when I found even 400 Kbits/ sec 3G connection would support an excellent quality VOIP voice connection.
You just answered your own ? voip voice over internet pro. 1x carries voice.
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mclass55
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Osage you got a lot of learning to do about the technology...Listen to Jim, he is right
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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject:

I think Osage and I are on two different topics. Cell phones do not use EVDO for voice calls. EVDO is a data only technology. You can use that via a USB device or hotspot to make voip calls. But no cell phone makes calls over EVDO. Even with the roll out of LTE there has yet to be a phone that can make calls on that technology. The carriers have not implemented that as yet.
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Bruce2
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Joined: 12 May 2011
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: A question about various wireless telco maps.

Osage wrote:
In terns of background, I have been happy with Verizon coverage maps. And I have found them to be very accurate.

But before I get up on any high horses and say therefore Verizon is best for everyone else, let me renounce that fallacy as false false and false. Because a given Wireless telco's coverage varies more due to location location and location. And when you the reader looks at this post, the probability that you live where I do, namely Boone Co, Indiana, is vanishingly small when this forum deals mostly with 3G and 4G data issues on a US and international scale.

As I ask another question about various wireless telco's coverage maps and their accuracy. Because now, all such coverage maps are not single issue maps, but seek to be a single application that seek to answer all possible qustions for all users of a given wireless telcos. (1) Such map seek to predict your basic voice coverage for both 3G and 4G cell phones. (2) Such maps seek to predict your 3G and 4G data coverage
in a given area.

As I found, from personal experince, the wireless telco's that totally lied and disapointed me in my local area, were those that predicted I would have a strong 3G data coverage signal, and at the same time a marginal
3G voice signal.

As I ask, how can we have a strong 3G data signal without an equally strong 3G voice signal?

Can anyone answer that question?


3G is strictly data..no voice..same with 4G strictly data ...no voice and i also think 1xRT is also data only.

OR are you asking, how come voice isnt used on 3G.
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Osage
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Jim_in_VA wrote:
I think Osage and I are on two different topics. Cell phones do not use EVDO for voice calls. EVDO is a data only technology. You can use that via a USB device or hotspot to make voip calls. But no cell phone makes calls over EVDO. Even with the roll out of LTE there has yet to be a phone that can make calls on that technology. The carriers have not implemented that as yet.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As agin I scream bullshit Jim, as there are now a plora of new 4G smart phones using 4G LTE technology or competing other technologies such as clearwire.

And then Jim, you go way past redicilous in saying, " Even with the roll out of LTE there has yet to be a phone that can make calls on that technology. The carriers have not implemented that as yet.[/quote]"

As we can only ask Jim , why do we allow that from that from our wireless carriers? As earth to Jim, do you really think our Wireless teclco's have have our best interests at heart just becuse they failed to impliment more consumer frendly policies? Do you really think, that just because our wireless telco's have yet to impliment better technology it proves you are correct?
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Bruce2
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Joined: 12 May 2011
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_%28telecommunication%29#Voice_calls
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Buggsy
EVDO User


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject:

Jim is right. You can use a third part application like Skype to make a phone call over 3G or 4G, but the technology that is the "cell phone" does not, and cannot use it for calls.
You have to separate the technologies of smartphone into a classic cell phone, and a computer. You can not place a cell phone call on a 3G/4G network. They are separate and incompatible technologies. You couldn't plug an analog phone into a data switch and expect it to work without some intervening technology.

Unless we are all misunderstanding you and you just want to rage against the machine.
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Osage
EVDO Junkie


Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Maybe we are all arguing at cross purposes on this thread. As maybe my question was not correctly defined.

As I argue that 3G and 4G (data and voice) are basically the same, simply because they are both transmitted in digital form and from the same tower and antenna in many cases.

After that, I can understand that a cell phone and wireless data modem may process that digital data in different ways because they are different technolgies. And also the tower may process voice and data in different ways.

To repeat my question looking from the perspective 3G and 4 G data and voice being the same as transmitted, why should a data modem have a predicted longer range than a cell phone on coverage maps?

If anything I would assume the opposite, as a cell phone can afford to have a dropped packet or two, once in awhile, without the voice sounding too garbled. But a data modem must have a perfect identical copy between the tranmitting a receiving data modem. If not the differing checksums must be resent, and maybe resent again until the checksums agree.
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Buggsy
EVDO User


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject:

While it may all be digital, there isn't much that is compatible. 3G/4G are data only connections, and operate on different frequencies than cellular voice does.

In a way it's like asking why can't my car radio tune in TV stations or HAM radio signals. It's not designed to receive or interpret those signals, and it takes different technology to understand them.

Does that make sense? When it comes to coverage, I don't know how they determine that. I assume it has to do with geography. The different frequency ranges that 3G/4G use might cut through interference better. Or for that mater, if you were surrounded by hills, those would cause signal reflection and frequency amplification. A phone might not be able to compensate for that since conversations are in real time. Data on the other hand, has a little time to process and filter out the junk.
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