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Jim_in_VA
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 1066
Location: On the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Osage is still stuck in the mud about 3G/4G being a voice connection.
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Last edited by Jim_in_VA on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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mclass55
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject:

Earth to Osage...3g/4g also known as EVDO is not a voice transmision!!!
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Osage
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject:

With all due respects to Jim_in_Va and Mclass55, you totally confuse what
I am asking, set up a straw man, and then knock it down as you answer a question I did not ask or assert. So I will rephrase my actual question again.

Because 3G and 4G voice and data may be differently processed at both the cell phone tower and at the receiving cell phone and data modem, but for that brief time of maybe 52,800 max nano seconds the digital data or voice signal is in the air between the tower and receiver, that signal is simply binary code.

So, in coverage maps, why do they predict a binary voice signal will travel further than a binary data signal? At least Buggsy took a stab at answering the question by asserting, "3G/4G are data only connections, and operate on different frequencies than cellular voice does. " But from what I am able to google, I doubt Buggsy has it right as it more looks like the data and voice signals from the same tower are on the same frequencies, even if those frequences may differ between 3 and 4 G.
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Buggsy
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Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject:

Perhaps we are still misunderstanding your question, but to try and lay it out in a different way that might help, try this.

Using your example of Verizon, these are the frequencies that each of the three types they typically use:
VOICE: 1800 MHz
3G: 800-899 MHz
4G: 700-799 MHz

The old generation of cell phones (think of bag phones) also used the 800-899 MHz spectrum, and it's still a valid frequency for those very old phone, however, no new towers in the last decade support that spectrum for voice. It is a legacy only thing on old towers.

Like I said, I don't know what goes into the calculations of range on a coverage map, but the frequency of the device makes a difference. And it's a big trade off between range and data bandwidth that makes 3G / 4G operate where it does. We moved voice calls years ago to up to that 1800 MHz range because it got above the noise of consumer electronics and vastly improved range.

IF you really want to know the criteria that they use to determine coverage, I'd suggest you call Verizon directly to ask that question.
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mclass55
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject:

very well explained Buggsy.
And Osage stop using the term 3g and 4g voice...there is no such thing.. Thats like saying AM and FM video.
Quote:
Osage said..Because 3G and 4G voice and data may be differently processed ..
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ChoP
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject:

Well the question I think what Osage is asking is how can the data footprint be different than the voice footprint on a CDMA Tower. The simple answer is, Data communication takes a more consistence stable connection to complete packet transfer successfully than voice communications.

Verizon uses CDMA2000 on most of it's towers related to 1x/3g, CDMA2000 comes in two versions: 1X and 3X and CDMA2000 is backward compatible to 1x. Voice and Data are both included in CDMA2000, it's the same signal transmission, only the base multiplex system separates Voice from Data and sets the communication data rates according to packet transmission reliability.

Here is an illustration, so y'all decide? Very Happy

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ChoP
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Perhaps we are still misunderstanding your question, but to try and lay it out in a different way that might help, try this.

Using your example of Verizon, these are the frequencies that each of the three types they typically use:
VOICE: 1800 MHz
3G: 800-899 MHz


Some what incorrect, CDMA can use either or both, for both data or voice, depending on the spectrum licensed to the carrier operating in that spectrum division.

Verizon tries to use 800-899 MHz if they own that spectrum in a particular division, 800-899 MHz has a better penetration therefore giving a more consistence signal footprint.

1800 MHz has better background noisy deflection but less NLOS penetration.
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Osage
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject:

Earth to Chop, why do you assume Verizon is the only wireless carrier telco?
Historically or now. In the "3G" era, Verizon largely bet on the 850 MHZ spectrum as a carrier for 3G data. As other claim I am talking about two different animals as 3G Verizon voice was carried at higher frequencies. Maybe a valid point I can't rebut.

But Chop, your claims somewhat vanish as the 4G era dawns. As traditional GSM carriers like AT&t and sprint used higher frequencies in the 1900 MHZ range to carry both 3G voice and data.

As we have also realized the real high speed benefits of 4G data will not work at the 1900 MHZ frequencies. As both AT&T and Sprint are now back to the drawing board playing catch up football on the ever more exploited and diminished 700-800 MHZ spectrum.
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ChoP
EVDO Heavy User


Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:26 am    Post subject:

Well Osage you're the one that used the example of Verizon so I assumed you wanted a response directed toward CDMA systems. And no, voice can be carried on Lower or higher frequencies as well as data, there is nothing 3g about cdma voice, it applies to data only. The problem is you are confused on how the CDMA 2000 "ARCHITECTURE" works. As for 4g or (OFDMA), 700-800 MHZ spectrum is what the FCC licensed that spectrum for, carriers don't have a choice in the matter.
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