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Luka
EVDO Junkie


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: I have antenna numbers, now how do I locate them ?

I talked to the Verizon tech, this morning.

During the course of the conversation, he let me know that I am normally on one tower. But that I do occassionally get bumped to a second tower.

I am in the mountains, and I didn't think it was possible to get a signal from any other towers, than the primary one. But that's beside the point.

I live near Index, Wa.

He said that I am normally on tower number 82.

But that I am occassionally on tower number 402.

Only he called them "cell-sites", or towers, interchangeably.

These are, of course, Verizon towers.

Is there any way for me to find out exactly where these towers are ?

ie, marked on a map...

Doesn't have to be perfect. Close enough, is good enough.

If I can get close, I can find the tower, myself.

Sure would help tons, in figuring out how to get the best signal, where I am...
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LARRYG
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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Location: Spotsylvania, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject:

http://www.antennasearch.com/
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Luka
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject:

LARRYG wrote:
http://www.antennasearch.com/


Thank you.

But...

I have known about and used antennasearch.com, literally, for years.

Using their map, I have located, and actually laid eyes on every tower, and antenna within a 5 mile radius of where I live.

It is useless in the context of my OP.

I have Verizon tower NUMBERS. Now I want to know which towers in my area are those particular towers.

Antenna search.com does not have any information regards which tower is verizon number 82 and which is verizon number 402.

Good try, though. Smile
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LARRYG
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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Location: Spotsylvania, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject:

well it will tell you who owns the tower ... but not necessarily who is being hosted.

the one near my house that I'm sure I'm connecting to is not identified as a Verizon Tower but rather National Communications.

if you find a way to specifically identify Verizon towers, please share.
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Luka
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:49 am    Post subject:

Exactly.

There is only -one- antenna, located on -one- tower, within a twelve mile radius of where I am... That has the name Verizon on it.

If they have a second in this area, it is not shown as owned or even rented by them.

Specifically identifying Verizon towers, (cell sites), by number is exactly what I am hoping for, and would be happy to share, if I ever find a way.

Thanks again.
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Matt
3Gstore Employee


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 1371

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject:

Luka wrote:
Exactly.

There is only -one- antenna, located on -one- tower, within a twelve mile radius of where I am... That has the name Verizon on it.

If they have a second in this area, it is not shown as owned or even rented by them.

Specifically identifying Verizon towers, (cell sites), by number is exactly what I am hoping for, and would be happy to share, if I ever find a way.

Thanks again.


Unfortunately, they won't do that because it's a security risk. Normally they'll tell you a general location, but they won't specifically tell you the exact location. I would guess that the tower numbers are used for field technicians when problems occur.
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LARRYG
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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Location: Spotsylvania, Virginia

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:37 am    Post subject:

widgetman101 wrote:
Luka wrote:
Exactly.

There is only -one- antenna, located on -one- tower, within a twelve mile radius of where I am... That has the name Verizon on it.

If they have a second in this area, it is not shown as owned or even rented by them.

Specifically identifying Verizon towers, (cell sites), by number is exactly what I am hoping for, and would be happy to share, if I ever find a way.

Thanks again.


Unfortunately, they won't do that because it's a security risk. Normally they'll tell you a general location, but they won't specifically tell you the exact location. I would guess that the tower numbers are used for field technicians when problems occur.


what kind of a security risk?

if that were actually true, the websites like antennaseach.co would not exist - right?

antenna.com does identify the owners of 'registered' towers an does give their exact lat/long coordinates..

Yesterday, I used antennasearch.com to go directly to the site of a cell tower in my testing.
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Luka
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject:

LARRYG wrote:
what kind of a security risk?

if that were actually true, the websites like antennaseach.co would not exist - right?

antenna.com does identify the owners of 'registered' towers an does give their exact lat/long coordinates..

Yesterday, I used antennasearch.com to go directly to the site of a cell tower in my testing.


Agreed.

I get the feeling that the only 'security' involved, is the security of Verizon's business obfuscations.
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Matt
3Gstore Employee


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject:

I don't know what the specific security risks would be. When I had originally got service with Verizon, I had filled out a customer service form complaining about my service. This was prior to getting any antenna's etc. After I filled that out, I received a call with a Verizon representative and he ended up dispatching a field technician to my home.

After the technician arrived he started to run some diagnostics etc. I spoke with him about antenna's because at that point I knew very little about them. I then proceeded to ask him about the towers in my area. He gave me a general idea of the location but when I asked about the specific tower addresses he couldn't tell me because he said it was a security issue.

Now, if I had to guess, I'd say the reason is because it would be very easy for a disgruntled customer to figure out the specific tower location and go do malicious things to it.

In my area the towers aren't even registered to Verizon, according to AntennaSearch.com. They are registered to Crown Atlantic Company. I don't know exactly how that site pulls their information.
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LARRYG
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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Location: Spotsylvania, Virginia

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject:

widgetman101 wrote:
I then proceeded to ask him about the towers in my area. He gave me a general idea of the location but when I asked about the specific tower addresses he couldn't tell me because he said it was a security issue.

In my area the towers aren't even registered to Verizon, according to AntennaSearch.com. They are registered to Crown Atlantic Company. I don't know exactly how that site pulls their information.


I don't doubt the conversation ... it could be a company policy or it could be he didn't think it was a good idea.. whatever

Around where I live.. I see towers identified as Sprint/PCS but the rest of them are non-phone companies..

I pay attention to our local govt that televises their meetings at which I see the tower companies supporting their applications or new towers an the county has rules. One is that the tower cannot exceed 200 feet and the second is that the tower must allow co-locating of different companies... because the county did not want a proliferation of towers because they don't want them messing up the viewshed ( we have a lot of civil war history and battlefields and such).

I don't believe I ever saw Verizon putting up their own tower.. but they may have.

okay... long story short - many of the towers in our area are not owned by the phone companies.. and many of those towers more than likely have more than one phone company using that tower.

That may be the case in other parts of the country.

I think as cell towers can have multiple companies on the same tower that it's not going to be easy to try to track towers by brand name.
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Luka
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject:

Just a quick update for the curious.

Verizon tech called me back very early this morning.

They actually told me the general location of the two towers.

No gps coordinates, or anything like that, but definitely close enough that I can be certain of the two towers.

Very cool !

~~~

The one they say I am always on, is the very one that I THOUGHT I was always on. Two miles away. Almost, but not quite, line of sight.

The one they say I connect to, occassionally...

Is 17 miles away, OUTSIDE the mountains.

There are entire mountains, and their foothills between here and there. I said mountainS. Not -a- mountain.

I don't think the signal could get here from there. Let alone, go both ways, from one little omni antenna... No amplifier.

This isn't mere conjecture on my part. I have topo maps, etc. I drive the route between here and there, often. I have lived here so long, I could drive it in my sleep. I know every nook and cranny bewteen here and there. (Yes, I notice such things. LOL And have had years of noticing.)

For the signal to get here, and back, it would have to go over the mountains, (Bounce off the clouds ?), THROUGH the mountains... Or snake it's way through many miles of a maze.

I have asked them several times, about the innaccuracy of their useage meter.

The excuse they have always used is that IF you are connecting to more than one tower, the data can take days, or even weeks, (as in enough weeks to make up more than one month.), to filter through to your useage meter on their system.

It's possible they know I only connect to one tower, and are making the claim that I am connecting to that other tower, just so they can hold onto the canned excuse.

It's also entirely possible that they are completely on the level, all around...

Hey, they DID tell me the location of the towers... You gotta assume they put at least -some- thought into the fact that I could figure out the topography/line of sight, between myself and the towers. Right ?

Could be legit. I guess I'll never know.

Smile
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LARRYG
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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Location: Spotsylvania, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject:

thanks for the update! do you have any idea of how they know it is you connecting to what tower?

Is that something the determine on site where you are or by looking at archival log data that probably has your unique ECM?

17 miles through the mountains.. yow! could it be.. that perhaps the tower itself is on top of one of them and that's why you get it?

I know out in the deserts of Arizona.. you cans see the towers on the mountains way off in the distance - miles and miles away - and yet I can connect.. and I assume it's to those distant towers because there ain't no towers where I am.. cuz they ain't no people to use them.
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Luka
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject:

LARRYG wrote:
thanks for the update! do you have any idea of how they know it is you connecting to what tower?

Is that something the determine on site where you are or by looking at archival log data that probably has your unique ECM?

17 miles through the mountains.. yow! could it be.. that perhaps the tower itself is on top of one of them and that's why you get it?

I know out in the deserts of Arizona.. you cans see the towers on the mountains way off in the distance - miles and miles away - and yet I can connect.. and I assume it's to those distant towers because there ain't no towers where I am.. cuz they ain't no people to use them.


I believe they have logs with some sort of unique identifier.

The tech that I talked to, was reading a log, and claimed to see at least three times that I had connected to the distant tower.

The tower in question is only at 184 feet or so, above sea level. (Top of the tower.) The mountains between us are at thousands of feet. Even the passes, are higher than that tower is. I am in a valley, back down again, at about 750 feet above sea level.

The one tower that I know I am connecting to, (and the one they acknowledge as my "main" tower), IS on top of a mountain. (or, almost on top.) And that is the only reason I get a signal from it. That puts it in -ALMOST- line of sight.

I could be completely wrong, but I am calling BS on this claim that I am connecting to another tower, 17 miles away, through the mountains, that is located even lower than the passes... All with a simple little omni antenna, and no amplifier.

That signal has to go both ways for there to be a connection.

Even IF my omni could possibly pick up some faint part of a signal from that farther tower, under whatever perfect circumstances there may be for same.. I don't think my little omni and no amplifier could push a signal back through those mountains, to a tower 17 miles away.

There is no way that I could make a connection with that tower and transfer large chunks of data... Which then take days to months, to finally filter back to my useage logs at Verizon... It just doesn't compute.
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Luka
EVDO Junkie


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject:

I do have to state again, though, that I was very surprised, and pleased that they actually called me back and gave me general locations on those towers.

I do appreciate that, because pretty soon I'll be aiming a dish at the tower that I am certain I connect to, all the time.

Up till now, I couldn't be absolutely certain where to aim.

This is going to make it a lot easier. By cutting out that uncertainty.
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Luka
EVDO Junkie


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Pacific Northwet

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject:

I need to post an apology here, for the rant about the second tower.

I found -better- topographic maps.

Using a straightedge on the map, it shows that the signal to and from the second tower may, in the best circumstances, be possible.

The signal would have to take a pretty circuitous path, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility for it to bounce enough of the signal off of enough of the peaks, (back and forth), to make it here.

Tell yu whut, tho, it's certainly obvious why I have such a poor signal, regardless of which tower I am using.

Soon as I can afford it, I will be buying a parabolic grid, and pointing it at the closer of the two.

Again, sorry for the rant.
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