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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Don't by an Overdrive - At least not yet |
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To anyone thinking of buying an Overdrive - DON'T!!! At least not yet. It is rife with problems, particularly on 4G and I have had nothing but headaches with it for the last 3 weeks. Below is a detailed listing of my issues that I have sent to the good folks at 3GStore.com. Perhaps in a few months, Sierra Wireless will get their act together and fix this product but for now, to quote from the movie, The Holy Grail, "Run Away!!! Run Away!!!"
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Market: Primarily Northwest Suburbs of Chicago. Time is spent in both 4G and 3G areas. My office is in Palatine, IL which is a 4G area and I live in Algonquin, IL which right now is 3G. The device is mainly in my car, so I travel and move between coverages multiple times in a day. I'm in sales and so I drive a lot mostly in 4G areas in areas East and South of Palatine, IL (ie: Schaumburg, Niles, O'Hare airport, etc).
OS: This is really independent for the most part. I have both an iPhone and a MacBookPro. But some of the "problems" I see are what I observe the device doing when I'm not even connected (ie: I think about connecting to it).
Some comments: If the device is used in a manner of being power off when not in use and then being powered on, used for a bit in a fixed location and then powered off again, the problems I am experiencing will likely not be seen. Perhaps Sierra didn't test it in an environment like I have.
OK - 4G coverage:
1.) I can be in an area with a solid 4G signal. I stream a lot of audio in the car via my iPhone and sometimes if stopped, I stream video via SlingPlayer as well. There are times that I am in an area with a 40% or better 4G signal and I literally cannot get 128 kbps to stream consistently. It will start and stop and start and stop. I see this all the time on my iPhone. Or I can be in an area with great signal and not be able to stream a 500 kbps video stream (the max that SlingPlayer for iPhone streams is 500 kbps). This is very inconsistent and it's hard to know if this is Sprint/Clear or Sierra's issue. But I have to believe that if it was Sprint or Clear, they would have a LARGE number of complaints from customers because what I've seen is not at all what WiMax is billed as. Other times, it works fine.
2.) I can be in a good 4G coverage area and be streaming audio or video just fine. Then the modem will suddenly stop and will drop the signal. I'll pick it up and it will say "Searching for 4G network." Then it finds it and things pick up again. I don't know if this is an issue involving handoffs between cell sites. I'm betting it is and there's either a problem at the switch and how it handles the handoff or there's a problem in the modem. My bet is in the modem.
3.) The above two are annoyances. Now we get into the good stuff. There are times when I am in a 4G network and the device will simply get stuck trying to find a signal. For example, the other day I was at O'Hare airport. I went to start streaming some audio. The connection started then died. Then nothing. I thought it was like number 2 above. Then I looked at the device and it was over and over and over and over and over and over and over again searching for a 4G signal. It would find one, say "Connecting to 4G Network" and then it would lose that signal and then search again, find a signal and then do this over and over and over and over and over and over again. Multiple times I watched it do this. Then I simply powered the device off. Then I powered it back up and up came the 4G network and it connected and boom, all was good. I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me. I don't always look at the display before I attempt to use the thing and it's very frustrating to be connected on WiFi but then not be able to bring up a web page or send an e-mail. I then look at the device and see it stuck in this loop. A simple power reset always fixes it. That's why I say above that if the device is turned on and off by someone before and after they use it, this problem will likely never be seen.
4.) In other instances I can be in a 4G network and then move into a 3G network. The device will sometimes move down to 3G fine. Other times it will get stuck on 4G and again search over and over and over and over and over and over again for 3G and never find it. We are talking that I have observed this for minutes at a time. My fall back to 3G is set to 10 seconds. The worst example I've seen was this week when I was driving up to Milwaukee. I was on the 4G network heading up I94 to Milwaukee. Up in Milwaukee about 90 minutes later, I went to use the device. It was sitting there searching for the 4G network. Now Milwaukee is not a 4G area! So it had been locked up since leaving the Chicago area and for 90 minutes or so was not moving over to 3G! Again, a power cycle fixed it.
5.) Other times, it will be locked onto a "phantom" 4G network. I have seen this where I live. The other weekend, I looked at the device and it said I was connected on 4G in Algonquin. I was like "Great. They've got towers out here now." But I could push no data - nothing. I tried over and over again. Nothing. Power cycle and the device comes up on 3G just fine. I've seen this happen multiple times.
6.) There are times when you connect to a 4G network and yet the data indicator on the bottom left corner of the screen does not show you are using data when you are. I never see this on 3G - only 4 G.
7.) Sometimes the unit when powering off, just goes to the battery charge display. Other times it says, "Powering off." It's not consistent with what it does. And the power button is very flakey in how it works. Sometimes I have to press it multiple times to get it to do anything.
8.) One time the other day when powering off (it may have been at O'Hare - I forget), the unit got stuck and locked up when powering down. The display froze. I had to remove the battery to shut it down.
9.) I've seen the unit lock up and freeze when searching for signals (this may have been fixed in the firmware update of a couple weeks ago - I don't know).
10.) This is a problem that I've begun seeing and it's troublesome. I have the audible tone turned on and I hear when a device connects or disconnects on WiFi. Sometimes when not using my phone or any data, I'll hear the Overdrive beep and then beep again like WiFi is connecting and disconnecting. I've had this happen a couple times now when streaming. What is happening is that the OD is literally dropping the WiFi connection and then picking it up again. I can look at the WiFi icon and see it filled in solid and then see it go to an outline. I then lose my data stream. It then connects again after a few seconds. This morning, I noticed one other thing happen while I was using it. I had the WiFi disconnection and when I looked at the device, the WiFi "person" icon on the OD was completely gone - nothing there. Then it came back as an outline and then my phone connected again. It's not acceptable that it loses WiFi connections like this. This happens on a regular basis.
11.) iPhone WiFi data rates are not what they should be. I can do a speed test with my iPhone and I maybe get 600 kbps to 1 Mbps. From the same location to the same test site with my laptop, I'll get 3 or 4 Mbps. It's not an iPhone limitation as in other locations (not using the OD) I can do speed tests and get 5 to 6 Mb/sec via WiFI on the iPhone.
12.) I've seen some instances of being in a strong 3G signal are and getting broken up 128 kbps audio streams. When I say strong - I mean all bars.
13.) I've seen times when I've gone into the web interface of the unit and seen all 0s or absolutely blank data for both 3G and 4G signal strengths. I think this usually happens during the "lockup" times described above. It literally looks like the data modem is not working at these times.
14.) Sometimes when I go into the web interface and try to get to any other menus, I get a 403 Forbidden error. I'm actually seeing this a lot lately. I go back and attempt to bring the page up again and it works.
15.) Seems like the device has a very low thermal shutoff. It tends to sit on my dash in the car and with the least bit of sun shining in on it, I'll come out and basically see it in limbo with just the word "overdrive" or something like that. The device is warm but not excessively so.
I'm sure I have seen more oddities then I've detailed here. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to specifically document everything when it happens as most of the time, I'm driving or not in a place where I can write everything down. I've done a lot of beta testing for a number of high profile consumer electronics companies and I know how important it is to document stuff. But many of these lockup problems happen and I don't even know about it. I just go to use the device and then I see the problem. So I can't quantify always when or where it happens.
I just spent probably 20 minutes of my day here typing this up. I'm a busy guy. If I wasn't seen these problems and having serious issues, I wouldn't waste my time doing this nor would I have wasted as much time with you guys on the phone, etc. Michael knows how long it took me just to get the device activated on Sprint's network.
Anyhow, I either have a bum device or this thing is just bad. I've got about a week left here on pulling the plug. I wish I had the time to slug through this and work with Sierra to get it fixed as the form factor and concept of the device is awesome. And I am pleased with the battery life I've seen so far. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that it will ever be fixed and Sprint has the damn contract. If there was some way we could get around that, I'd be happy to be a "tester" or something like that. I don't know what we can do. I'd be willing to get a second OD and try it out - but I don't know if that would give me another 30 days or what. Or could I move back and forth - get a Cradlepoint and U501 and then if Sierra "fixes" the issue within the next 30 days, could I go back. I'm just not sure what to do. What I do know is that the device as it is is unusable.
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And another a bit later:
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Let me give you another story that has just been happening for the last 10 or 15 minutes.
I was leaving an appointment and wanted to check if I was in a 4G coverage area. I grabbed my OD which had been on my dash. As soon as I pushed the power button, it didn't light up, it just reset itself and upon this, came up immediately and said I was connected to 4G. Showed the signal strength was full bars. I thought that odd as I was in the Fox River Valley in Dundee, IL. So I tried to use it. Nothing. No data connection. So I knew I had a "phantom" 4G experience. So I powered the unit down and then powered it back up again. SAME EXACT THING HAPPENED. So this time, I pulled the battery. Then I put it back in. Sprint logo came up and then it showed the "charging" battery symbol. So then I pushed the power button to fire it up further (why you have to push it again is beyond me). Nothing. Waited a bit. Pushed again. Nothing. Pushed again a little longer. Nothing. Waited some more. Pushed longer again. This time, it said "Powering off." So then I had to start it again! Then I got it to boot up. Now after coming up, it says it's located a 4G network and attempts to connect. It fails and gives connection error 4. I thought maybe it had found a 4G network as this time the signal strength indicator showed 2 bars. Then after a minute, it came up with the "disconnected from 3G/4G network - Push (the power button) to connect." So I push the power button. Unit doesn't attempt to connect - IT SHUTS OFF AGAIN!!! So I start it up again. Same thing happens. Attempts to connect to a 4G network. Gets connection error 4. Then gives me the push power button to connect message. I push the power button again. This time it works and connects me to 3G.
And so I'm in the same physical location where it did the last two attempts to connect - I'm in the Best Buy parking lot in West Dundee, IL. In these last two attempts I received a "4G signal" and it attempted to connect and got the connection error 4. Well, I went into the web interface and am now told that there is NO SIGNAL on 4G. So you tell me how it showed two bars and attempted to connect and now shows absolutely nothing with "no signal." You tell me that it's working right.
So all that just to connect.
And Sierra thinks this product is in good working order? This is Alpha firmware - not even ready for beta testing! You can quote me to them on this. This was absolutely insane today.
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Finally, if you have read this far, be advised that the Overdrive does NOT charge when connected to your computer via USB. It runs off the batteries. Why the Sam Hill they did that, I don't know.
But don't buy - not now.
Jon |
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tbhausen
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Don't by an Overdrive - At least not yet |
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| na9d wrote: | ...And Sierra thinks this product is in good working order? This is Alpha firmware - not even ready for beta testing! You can quote me to them on this. This was absolutely insane today.
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Finally, if you have read this far, be advised that the Overdrive does NOT charge when connected to your computer via USB. It runs off the batteries. Why the Sam Hill they did that, I don't know.
But don't buy - not now.
Jon[/quote]
First, thanks for that. It was a lot of work to compile and type and gives us all things to look out for. I'm watching this place like a hawk and if we don't get some answers quick you can bet mine's going back before 30 days in exchange for a U301. I'll buy a compatible Cradlepoint router here if I do that.
Your post count is 3? I've seen you around here for quite some time. That doesn't make sense... |
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Michael
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 5628
Location: Cary, IL
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tbhausen
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: Us, too... :) |
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| Hopefully, the hardware is fundamentally OK and all this can be solved via firmware. |
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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Don't by an Overdrive - At least not yet |
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| tbhausen wrote: |
First, thanks for that. It was a lot of work to compile and type and gives us all things to look out for. I'm watching this place like a hawk and if we don't get some answers quick you can bet mine's going back before 30 days in exchange for a U301. I'll buy a compatible Cradlepoint router here if I do that.
Your post count is 3? I've seen you around here for quite some time. That doesn't make sense... |
I don't know why my post count is just 3. I have been here for some time but hadn't made any posts in a couple of years. So who knows.
FYI: I bit the bullet and outright purchased a U301 and PHS300 this afternoon. OMG!!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
The U301 picks up a 4G signal in my driveway in Algonquin, IL and I'm not technically in a 4G area. The Overdrive did NOT pick up any 4G out here. And the 3G to 4G negotiation on the PHS300 is way better. You can set it up to continually scan 4G for a connection and to automatically switch over when it can make one. I literally watched it go in and out of 4G to 3G and back to 4G again. The OD would never do that.
I still have my OD. Not sure if I'm going to ever want to activate it again after 10 minutes with the U301 and PHS300. The OD has some advantages but performance is NOT one of them. I think the radio isn't as good as the U301 regardless of firmware. I'm actually shocked at the performance difference. Shocked... |
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WhtLightning
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I had similar performance from the OD, as compared to the MiFi..
The OD receiver was no where in the ballpark compared to the MiFi, that's the reason I had to revert to the 2200..
I am rural, so 4G is realistically not coming here soon..
I liked alot of the interface that the OD has, but if I don't have a reliable connection, those nice things the OD has within, are worthless to me.
Of course.. Your mileage will vary, as always when you are dealing with wireless.
Good luck with your new setup! |
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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'm glad I'm not alone. I've had an EX720 for the last 3 years and while Sprint's EVDO coverage in my area isn't perfect, it sure seemed to me that on 3G with the OD that coverage had gotten worse. I now totally attribute it to the receiver in the OD. I think the design is just lacking. |
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Michael
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 5628
Location: Cary, IL
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Don't by an Overdrive - At least not yet |
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| na9d wrote: | | FYI: I bit the bullet and outright purchased a U301 and PHS300 this afternoon. OMG!!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE! |
Glad it is working out for you. You wouldn't believe how close our Cary warehouse is from Algonquin, BUT no 4G here yet - but is is planned in the second expansion in the Chicago area (all the way to Rockford).
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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Don't by an Overdrive - At least not yet |
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| Michael wrote: | | na9d wrote: | | FYI: I bit the bullet and outright purchased a U301 and PHS300 this afternoon. OMG!!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE! |
Glad it is working out for you. You wouldn't believe how close our Cary warehouse is from Algonquin, BUT no 4G here yet - but is is planned in the second expansion in the Chicago area (all the way to Rockford). |
Yes, I would. I drive by the warehouse at least once a week from my house! 
But if you look at coverage maps, I'm not supposed to have 4G out here either. Algonquin is not a 4G area. And I'm in a low spot - only about a third of the way up the Fox River Valley. I'm probably just in a good line of site from the towers that cover the Elgin/Dundee area. |
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tbhausen
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
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na9d,
ATM I consider the Overdrive an unmitigated disaster. Performance is so terrible even compared to my Touch Pro2 (I can do back-to-back speed tests with the TP2's onboard Rev. A radio vs. the Overdrive's Rev. A radio when connecting the TP2 via WiFi and the Overdrive is simply a dog by comparison) that I just can't see how a firmware update could fix what appear to be serious reception issues. The Overdrive has much higher (about double, on average) latency and download speeds are all over the map from slower than 1XRTT to decent, but never as fast as the TP2 can attain under equal conditions. The OD drops both 3G signal and connected WiFi clients with alarming regularity... in my case, it's simply a disaster 
Bells and whistles don't mean a thing if the unit doesn't reliably pass data. The OD is a LONG ways from that point. I'm going to give it about a week, and if Sierra hasn't released a miraculous firmware update, this thing's gone inside 30 days and I'll get a U301 instead. Then I'll get a 4G-compatible router from 3Gstore.com (since my old CTR-350, purchased before Cradlepoint hooked up with 3GStore, is only 3G-compatible). |
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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| tbhausen wrote: | na9d,
ATM I consider the Overdrive an unmitigated disaster. Performance is so terrible even compared to my Touch Pro2 (I can do back-to-back speed tests with the TP2's onboard Rev. A radio vs. the Overdrive's Rev. A radio when connecting the TP2 via WiFi and the Overdrive is simply a dog by comparison) that I just can't see how a firmware update could fix what appear to be serious reception issues. The Overdrive has much higher (about double, on average) latency and download speeds are all over the map from slower than 1XRTT to decent, but never as fast as the TP2 can attain under equal conditions. The OD drops both 3G signal and connected WiFi clients with alarming regularity... in my case, it's simply a disaster
Bells and whistles don't mean a thing if the unit doesn't reliably pass data. The OD is a LONG ways from that point. I'm going to give it about a week, and if Sierra hasn't released a miraculous firmware update, this thing's gone inside 30 days and I'll get a U301 instead. Then I'll get a 4G-compatible router from 3Gstore.com (since my old CTR-350, purchased before Cradlepoint hooked up with 3GStore, is only 3G-compatible). |
Agreed.
I don't think that firmware can fix a bad radio design and I'm almost certain the OD's radio design is bad as well. So I'm with you. I've got about a week left in my 30 days. I was planning on keeping the OD but now, I'm seriously thinking about returning it and running w/o a contract. Because, yeah, a poor radio design will NEVER be made up for in firmware. |
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NetJunkie
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't say I've used my Overdrive extensively yet, but I'd hardly call it a disaster. I used it for 4 hours straight yesterday on 4G with no interruption. I used it the other day for over 2 hours straight on 4G, again, no interruption. I can tell if it drops since my SSH and RDP sessions would drop. I'm getting 6Mb/s with a first hop latency of 85 to 90ms. I have no complaints with either. |
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Michael
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 5628
Location: Cary, IL
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Can everyone post their market (Chicago, Dallas, etc.) that they are in, because there is some data that we are accumulating that is looking like some of the XOHM markets that were converted over to CLEAR are the ones having major problems.
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JamesA
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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My original overdrive worked pretty well for about 2 1/2 weeks. I used it for extended periods every day and only had an occasional wifi drop (requiring a restart) until it finally bricked a few days after flashing the 1.07 firmware update.
The replacement unit drops wifi signal randomly. Sometimes it will stay online for a few hours while other times it will drop every 15 - 30 minutes. I've noticed the wifi will usually reconnect after about 30 minutes if left alone. Otherwise it requires a restart to immediately reconnect. |
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na9d
EVDO Fledgling
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| NetJunkie wrote: | | I can't say I've used my Overdrive extensively yet, but I'd hardly call it a disaster. I used it for 4 hours straight yesterday on 4G with no interruption. I used it the other day for over 2 hours straight on 4G, again, no interruption. I can tell if it drops since my SSH and RDP sessions would drop. I'm getting 6Mb/s with a first hop latency of 85 to 90ms. I have no complaints with either. |
If you use it in a fixed location with a decent signal it's fine. But if you use it mobile where you move in and out of 4G areas, it is a disaster. |
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