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3Gstore EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 3171
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Want 3G? Verizon says there's a map for that |
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During the MNF game that saw Brett Farve and the Vikings beat the Green Bay Packers, Verizon Wireless rolled out a commercial that attacks ATT's claim of the largest 3G network.
Check out: "There's A Map For That"
Verizon also released a press release that included a link to PDF file that shows 3G coverage comparison... check out: http://j.mp/28Mu3n
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n6gn EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 604 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Interesting advertising. What isn't highlighted is that for the Verizon & Sprint the "coverage" means EVDO and only 1 user per carrier for maximum rate. Multiple users, sharing a coverage area get reduced performance, as all of us in heavily used areas know. Thus 'coverage' and 'capacity' can be spun by marketing to overstate the aggregate user experience.
Put another way, as 3G uptake increases the performance that is described in a "covered" area takes a hit, eventually getting very poor.
The other carriers have a similar issue but it doesn't manifest the same way. For time division systems, the users' experience in a 'covered' region doesn't change until the system max's out. Then it goes bad instantly and "system unavailable" happens.
"You pays your money and makes your choice" but nobody simultaneously has lots of high quality 3G coverage for a large number of users - no matter what the marketeers may say!
n6gn |
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EVDO_user EVDO User
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 29
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| n6gn wrote: | Interesting advertising. What isn't highlighted is that for the Verizon & Sprint the "coverage" means EVDO and only 1 user per carrier for maximum rate. Multiple users, sharing a coverage area get reduced performance, as all of us in heavily used areas know. Thus 'coverage' and 'capacity' can be spun by marketing to overstate the aggregate user experience.
Put another way, as 3G uptake increases the performance that is described in a "covered" area takes a hit, eventually getting very poor.
The other carriers have a similar issue but it doesn't manifest the same way. For time division systems, the users' experience in a 'covered' region doesn't change until the system max's out. Then it goes bad instantly and "system unavailable" happens.
"You pays your money and makes your choice" but nobody simultaneously has lots of high quality 3G coverage for a large number of users - no matter what the marketeers may say!
n6gn |
Is that not why carriers are increasing their capacity in their networks? This would alleviate the problems which arise from increase in popularity in a given "cell".
From Verizon's perspective, their overall liquidity has risen with their recent acquisition of Alltel. That acquisition had increased their EVDO coverage tremendously, from a coverage, binary perspective . With that increased coverage and increase in the number of customers, the company has the ability to drastically expand its network capacity to prevent network congestion and the dreaded "system is busy" output, as is the case with time division.
But I believe to some extent, regardless of the number of users, the size of network coverage outweighs network congestion. The increase in revenue from a general rise in paying customers will not go to the employees or the executives, that money will go to expanding the company's network and investing in and deploying innovative technologies like Long Term Evolution. |
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n6gn EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 604 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Verizon may get to claim larger 'coverage' footprint, but that coverage is still limited by the nature of the coverage in any area. For EVDO, everywhere it's one-carrier-per-user with multiple users time sharing the carrier. Thus any given sector antenna is only serving a single user at any instant. Once more users enter that same sector and try to use that same carrier, the resource is time shared.
This means that there is a bit of deception in calling the particular geographic area 'covered'. It's covered for a single user but the experience degrades when multiple users are involved.
To be more even (less spin) the map should be modified to show a combination of coverage/capacity in each area. Were that done, the differences among carriers would not seem so great.
To truly provide many users a high speed experience, there is no alternative to increasing the cell site density and reducing the cell size and corresponding radio path length to each user. This also requires a commensurate increase in backhaul. That truth seems not to be something that any of the carriers want to tell their shareholders.
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EVDO_user EVDO User
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 29
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| That's the nature of sharing a resource though and cellular technology in general, right? |
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n6gn EVDO Junkie
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 604 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| EVDO_user wrote: | | That's the nature of sharing a resource though and cellular technology in general, right? |
Not quite, though it is particularly bad with central flooding architectures that current cellular systems use. Sharing means you have to have enough to share. So there's no getting around the ultimate backhaul needs. However, long paths and large cell sizes for distribution in the real world with real terrain and foliage are fundamentally extremely wasteful.
If radio paths were all very short, all line of sight and there wasn't 30-50 dB of excess path loss (amounting to 1000 - 100K:1 loss of information capacity) mobile systems could grow for a long time without running out of distribution capacity as they do.
As it is, a user device (having an antenna) the approximate size of a mobile phone/PDA and required to run an hour or two on self contained power source is fundamentally at odds with a physical environment that is absorptive. The vast majority of the energy gets wasted.
For 1G and 2G (voice) channels only needing ~10 kbps, it was doable, but beyond that in 3G forward there's no alternative to improving and/or shortening the paths. Whether you call it a hotspot, cell site or mesh network, the paths have to be very short to deliver high capacity everywhere.
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skierbri10 EVDO Newbie
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Weird, ATT has better 3g coverage than that. As seen with my iPhone. Not sure if it is roaming or not. |
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EVDO_user EVDO User
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 29
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| n6gn wrote: | | EVDO_user wrote: | | That's the nature of sharing a resource though and cellular technology in general, right? |
Not quite, though it is particularly bad with central flooding architectures that current cellular systems use. Sharing means you have to have enough to share. So there's no getting around the ultimate backhaul needs. However, long paths and large cell sizes for distribution in the real world with real terrain and foliage are fundamentally extremely wasteful.
If radio paths were all very short, all line of sight and there wasn't 30-50 dB of excess path loss (amounting to 1000 - 100K:1 loss of information capacity) mobile systems could grow for a long time without running out of distribution capacity as they do.
As it is, a user device (having an antenna) the approximate size of a mobile phone/PDA and required to run an hour or two on self contained power source is fundamentally at odds with a physical environment that is absorptive. The vast majority of the energy gets wasted.
For 1G and 2G (voice) channels only needing ~10 kbps, it was doable, but beyond that in 3G forward there's no alternative to improving and/or shortening the paths. Whether you call it a hotspot, cell site or mesh network, the paths have to be very short to deliver high capacity everywhere.
n6gn |
Again, that is the nature of a cellular data network where a user shares the cell with others users. The data resource is shared in a given geographical area. The limitations of the current technology and the feasibility of previous generations does not matter. |
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onedavester EVDO Junkie
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 201 Location: Upstate NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Verizon does not show all their deadzones. Very seldom is any rural area blanketed like they are showing.
Sprint might appear to have a lot less 3G coverage, but their maps are alot more accurate an realistic.
In the end Sprint probably has more. |
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im_electronic EVDO Junkie
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 226 Location: Covina, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| sprint's roaming agreements with VZ help out too... |
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