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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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 Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Preferred WiFi chipset for 802.11n access point with MBR1000 |
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Hi folks,
I'm looking to buy an 802.11n access point for use with my MBR1000. Are there any particular brands/wifi chipsets I should be looking for in order to get best compatibility and performance?
Or to get right down to it, does anyone have any suggestions for an 802.11n access point with a gigabit ethernet port?
Thanks! |
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3Gstore
EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3171
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| why not just add a gigabit switch to the MBR1000? |
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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex wrote: | | why not just add a gigabit switch to the MBR1000? |
I think you misunderstand my intent. I said access point when I guess I really meant a bridge or wireless gaming adapter.
What I'm really looking to do is boost my wireless throughput from my main computer to my PS3. My main computer has a wired connection to my MBR1000. My PS3 is currently using the internal 802.11g wireless connection to my MBR1000. I want to get a wireless AP to connect my PS3 to the network via 802.11n.
Also, the wired port on the MBR1000 is only 10/100, isn't it? I don't seem to recall it being gigabit. |
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3Gstore
EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3171
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Parja wrote: | | My PS3 is currently using the internal 802.11g wireless connection to my MBR1000. I want to get a wireless AP to connect my PS3 to the network via 802.11n. |
there is no advantage to changing from G to N on your PS3.
data will not move faster, and no more data will flow.
WiFi G already handles all the PS3 will communicate because gaming data is not high bandwidth. its mostly positional data. all the video/graphics will come from the game disc.
the only reason to switch to WiFi N is if distance from PS3 to router is a problem.
if you must do it anyway, i prefer the apple airport express to convert wifi to ethernet |
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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex wrote: | there is no advantage to changing from G to N on your PS3.
data will not move faster, and no more data will flow.
WiFi G already handles all the PS3 will communicate because gaming data is not high bandwidth. its mostly positional data. all the video/graphics will come from the game disc.
the only reason to switch to WiFi N is if distance from PS3 to router is a problem.
if you must do it anyway, i prefer the apple airport express to convert wifi to ethernet |
When gaming, yes, G is plenty. But gaming is just one of the PS3s many talents. The additional bandwidth is very much useful when it comes to things like streaming HD video...which I tend to do much much more often than online gaming. |
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3Gstore
EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3171
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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but you are streaming this content over EVDO or similar mobile broadband right?
and what is maximum mb/s of that connectivity? 1 ~ 2mb/s?
how is WiFi G at 54mb/s going to be insufficient? |
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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex wrote: | but you are streaming this content over EVDO or similar mobile broadband right?
and what is maximum mb/s of that connectivity? 1 ~ 2mb/s?
how is WiFi G at 54mb/s going to be insufficient? |
Sorry, again it seems I've been unclear. I'm streaming it from my "media server" computer within the same network. |
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3Gstore
EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3171
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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and now we go back to what i said in the first place:
add a gigabit switch to your MBR1000 and then run ethernet cables from your media server and PS3 to the gigabit switch.
your local file transfers will fly faster than if hard wired to MBR1000's megabit ethernet ports.
and your connectivity to the internet will still go though the MBR1000 |
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reggie14
EVDO User
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think the OP is asking because he can't easily run wire between his media server and his PS3. If it were possible, it probably wouldn't help to use gigabit ethernet over 100 megabit ethernet. High-definition video doesn't eat up much more than 35 megabits/sec of bandwidth.
But, to be on the safe side, I should point out that despite the fact that 802.11n is theoretically rated for 300mbps, in practice it tops out closer to 100mbps. The MBR1000's 802.11n radios only work in the 2.4GHz band, which limits performance somewhat, as the 2.4GHz band is more crowded than the 5Ghz band. I live in an apartment, so I wanted to avoid the 2.4Ghz spectrum, so I picked up a wireless bridging kit by Netgear. It works pretty well. The kit has both the AP and the bridge. It also *only* has 5Ghz radios, which means the AP doesn't work with a lot of other devices out there that only work in the 2.4Ghz band.
In the OP's case, he really only needs the bridge, not the AP (since the MBR1000 can play that role). I've used Linksys routers flashed with DD-WRT firmware to do similar things before with wireless G. I have also have a WRT150N router that works pretty well, but I haven't tried using it as a bridge. I don't think Linksys makes that router anymore, but you can still buy it refurbished. The replacement model doesn't work with DD-WRT, as far as I know, so you wouldn't be able to use it as a bridge.
Linksys also has the WGA600N gaming adapter, which probably works fine, although it seems to be a bit overpriced. |
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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| reggie14 wrote: | | I think the OP is asking because he can't easily run wire between his media server and his PS3. If it were possible, it probably wouldn't help to use gigabit ethernet over 100 megabit ethernet. High-definition video doesn't eat up much more than 35 megabits/sec of bandwidth. |
Yup, you got it. PS3 (and Dish Network box which I also wouldn't mind getting on the network) are in the basement, my MBR1000 is on the main level, and there's probably about 70 feet between the two. I don't really feel like drilling a hole and the floor and stringing that much CAT6. Not to mention, I'd have to double the cable or get another switch at my home theater if I want to include the Dish Network box.
Plus, about the best I can muster right now with the 802.11g connection is a 48mbps connection rate.
Media box sits close to the MBR1000 and is connected via Ethernet right now, though I may try it over 802.11n. So I don't terribly NEED gigabit Ethernet on the bridge, but it doesn't come at a terribly high premium, so I figure I may as well go for it.
| Quote: | | But, to be on the safe side, I should point out that despite the fact that 802.11n is theoretically rated for 300mbps, in practice it tops out closer to 100mbps. The MBR1000's 802.11n radios only work in the 2.4GHz band, which limits performance somewhat, as the 2.4GHz band is more crowded than the 5Ghz band. |
Fortunately, I live fairly in the country (nearest neighbor is probably 500 feet away, so 2.4GHz isn't a bad thing. Plus, it's better at going through objects (like between floors), so it might be a benefit in my case.
| Quote: | | Linksys also has the WGA600N gaming adapter, which probably works fine, although it seems to be a bit overpriced. |
I'll have to check that out...thanks!
I've found a couple of 802.11n routers with gigabit Ethernet, the Trendnet TRENDnet TEW-633GR and the D-Link DIR-655, that both appear to be configurable as a bridge and have integrated gigabit switches and are available under $100, so I might just go that route. I guess the big question is which one would work better with the MBR1000.
So I guess that brings me back to one of the questions in my original post. Does anyone know what wifi chipset is used in the MBR1000? |
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3Gstore
EVDO Addict
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 3171
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| reggie14 wrote: | | In the OP's case, he really only needs the bridge |
and, i gave my recommendation for that already. the apple airport express.
$99 new, $79 as refurb from apple store, with one year warranty. |
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reggie14
EVDO User
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Parja wrote: |
Plus, about the best I can muster right now with the 802.11g connection is a 48mbps connection rate. |
Just to be clear, Windows may report a 48mbps connection speed, but that's certainly not a realistic speed in practice. 802.11g typically tops out at ~20mbps with a good signal. 802.11n seems to top out around ~90mbps with a good signal.
| Quote: | | Media box sits close to the MBR1000 and is connected via Ethernet right now, though I may try it over 802.11n. So I don't terribly NEED gigabit Ethernet on the bridge, but it doesn't come at a terribly high premium, so I figure I may as well go for it. |
I'm not sure what you were getting at here. My point is a gigabit ethernet bridge wouldn't provide a measurable benefit over a 100 megabit ethernet bridge. For all practical purposes, you'd be limited by the speed of the wireless link, not the wired link. For most bandwidth intensive operations, you're concerned about either maximum upload bandwidth or maximum download bandwidth (not both simultaneously). Either way, 802.11n tops out at ~90mbps.
So, based on what you've said, it wouldn't make any sense to switch your server from a wired 100 megabit link to a [slower and less reliable] 802.11n link.
I should also point out that the WGA600N gaming adapter has a 100 megabit ethernet jack. And, my 802.11n wireless bridging kit also only has 100 megabit jacks.
| Quote: | | So I guess that brings me back to one of the questions in my original post. Does anyone know what wifi chipset is used in the MBR1000? |
As you apparently already know, it's usually best to match chipsets as closely as possible. It's a bit easier to get chipset info on Linksys/Dlink/etc products, because they're more common. You could try e-mailing Cradlepoint and asking them what chipset is used. But, in practice, I don't think it's going to matter. Years ago, 802.11n wasn't fully standardized and it was more important to match manufacturers. It's technically still not standardized, but for all practical purposes it is.
I should also warn you it's unlikely your wireless connection will be completely trouble free. Doing file transfers my 802.11n bridge consistently gives me ~85mbps of bandwidth. But, I do get some hiccups every now and then when I stream HD videos, which are ~25mbps. Lots of little things can interfere with the wireless signal, especially in short bursts. Make sure you don't have a 2.4Ghz cordless phone. Those can cause big problems. |
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Parja
EVDO Newbie
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Whitewater, WI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| reggie14 wrote: | | Just to be clear, Windows may report a 48mbps connection speed, but that's certainly not a realistic speed in practice. 802.11g typically tops out at ~20mbps with a good signal. 802.11n seems to top out around ~90mbps with a good signal. |
Yup, that's why I said "connection rate".
| Quote: | | I'm not sure what you were getting at here. My point is a gigabit ethernet bridge wouldn't provide a measurable benefit over a 100 megabit ethernet bridge. For all practical purposes, you'd be limited by the speed of the wireless link, not the wired link. |
Yeah, I conceded that I wouldn't really be utilizing the gigabit Ethernet in the bridge, but for a small premium, it's nice to have the ability to use it as a gigabit router/switch in the future.
| Quote: | | So, based on what you've said, it wouldn't make any sense to switch your server from a wired 100 megabit link to a [slower and less reliable] 802.11n link. |
I figured it probably won't be better, but I might give it a try just for kicks. Like I said before, I live in the country and our microwave (which is a ways out of the line between the devices) is the only thing we've got that will make for significant interference. My wireless network has actually been pretty darn reliable. Just need more speed now. |
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JoeCHecht
EVDO Junkie
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 415
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex wrote: | | WiFi G at 54mb/s |
54 mb/s is a theory, in a lab, under perfect conditions, between matched devices.
That figure dwindles down to unusable, very quickly.
This would be shown should someone take a router, and do a range test that accounts for not only the connection speed, but the actual throughput, and then published the data (perhaps in a comparison of named routers, for the purpose of an unbiased review).
J |
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reggie14
EVDO User
Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeCHecht wrote: |
54 mb/s is a theory, in a lab, under perfect conditions, between matched devices.
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It's not even that (and the OP realizes that). The 802.11g protocol falls apart on paper at speeds above 54mbps. That in no way means it's physically possible, even under ideal conditions, to get 54mbps out of wireless g devices.
One last comment to the OP: In most cases, you don't see reliability problems with wifi unless you do something that's high-bandwidth and not very tolerant of late/lost packets. Streaming high-definition video falls in this category. Wireless-N has plenty of bandwidth to stream high-definition video, and on average you'll have at least 3 times as much bandwidth as you need. But, every now and then they will be a hiccup. You can see this if you do a large file transfer over wifi and you watch a graph of bandwidth usage. For 802.11g you should be able to pull down 20mbps, but every minute or so it might drop down to 10mbps for a very short period of time. With a file transfer you would never notice this. But, even very short hiccups while streaming HD will empty buffers and cause a blip in playback.
Still, I think it's a great idea to switch from a wireless-g to a wireless-n bridge. You probably wouldn't notice any problems unless you stream blu-ray rips or other very high bit-rate videos (possibly including 1080i mpeg2 files). I'm not sure what kind of files you'd be dealing with, but I'm guessing they would be lower bit-rate mpeg4/H.264 files. Those shouldn't give you any problems. |
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