How do I setup a 595U outdoors?

widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

Okay so I'm back for round 3 on the evdo quest. So here is my current hardware and setup. Post is rather long I thank you in advance for taking the time to help me out Laughing

Verizon 595U
30 Feet Wilson Ultra Low loss cable
800Mhz Yagi Antenna

*Installed on a 16 foot 4x4 with a 10 foot PVC extension run off it. So its up around 23 feet as I C clamped a section of the PVC pipe onto the 4x4.

I've located the only tower in my area that I even have a remote chance of getting decent evdo. Right now I'm connecting off and on through forcing HDR mode with the antenna setup outdoors.

Now there seems to be days and or times that I won't even find a signal although nothing has moved. Like last night I completely lost the evdo signal and could only connect to nation access. Right now I'm currently connected to Rev-A hovering around -86dBm through -92dBm dropping as low as -80dBm after the connection goes into the dormant stage. But when I start surfing and or downloading for the most part it will jump to around -95 through -107 dBm and has spiked as high as -117dBm.

Obviously this isn't a stable connection and its still quite nice when I am able to connect. Knowing that I can connect sometimes makes me believe I should be able to connect fully with a more extreme setup.

My place is a bit tricky. The side of my house that faces the tower that gives me evdo is facing towards a wooded section behind my house. There is no place I can go but up to try and get over them. I was hoping I got high enough but I guess I didn't. I'll take some pictures of my actual tree line later this week.

Now from my house to the tree line is probably 300-400 feet. Not exact I'll get measurements over the weekend though. I'm thinking some type of external enclosure or box setup would be my best option with just putting the antenna on top of one of the 80-100 foot trees in my backyard for a clear direct shot at the tower which is 5 miles away.

I would try and just put the setup on the other side of my house but its going downhill and I would need to go even higher to get the same effect. So I want to go via the backyard.

I guess I'm just looking for input on how the best way of going about this will be. Right now the antenna is horizontal with the ground and I was thinking of taking it down over the weekend and tilting it up slightly to see if that helps.

Would a repeater be a better option. If I could just mount one thing way up in a tree and aim the yagi at that, that would be great if they make something like this.

I'm on the east coast so if I do some type of outdoor enclosure it needs to be able to run in the middle of summer 95F to the dead of winter 1-2F so I'm still a bit worried I can find something that isn't going to fry components.

I've looked at wireless evdo routers but I'm lost to what works with the 595u and if it were sealed in a enclosure would it send a signal 400 feet into my room to connect to?

I've gathered also Ethernet has a lot less loss so were do I find long Ethernet cables if I'm out of wireless range. Again the Ethernet cable would need to be very weather resistant.

As I've typed this out my connection has went dormant and i'm currently at -81dBm on Rev A so I know there has got to be a way to keep the signal connected.

Is an amp going to help it stay connected and not drop as bad when sending packets or should I look at going higher before getting a amp?

Sorry if this post is rather jumbled as I just got off work and my mind is racing a bit trying to think of different options. Believe me I've been thinking about this all day at work and probably won't stop until I've solved the problem.

Thanks again I'll provide more LOS info and survey pictures to give you a idea of what I'm working around towards the end of the week. Thanks again!

SavedbyWireless · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: 595U outdoors set-up

I'm not sure if I'm reading some of your observations correctly, so please bear with me. First off, the -dBm measurements you mentioned seem to be in reverse order. The lower the -dBm number (i.e. closer to "0"), the stronger the EV-DO signal is. -117 dBm is almost off the chart for being a weak signal, and it is amazing that you can maintain any sort of broad-band link with that weak a signal. Secondly, you mention using approx. 30 ft. of coax cable. If this cable is not "active", you are basically shooting yourself in the foot in your attempt to remotely locate the 595U. I also have a 595U here at home, am approx. 3 miles from my nearest servicing tower. Initially, I was getting signal strengths ranging anywhere from the mid-80's through the low-90's placing the modem on my computer table. My current solution was to buy a powered USB hub, three lengths of good-quality USB extension cable, and to place the 595U up in the rafters of my attic. My signal strength has gone from the previously-mentioned mid-80's (two bars) to the mid-70's (three to four bars) VZ's Access Manager.
I want to emphasize that I, too, was looking for some method to mount my modem even higher than the attic, which meant somehow going outdoors. The 595U is not going to survive outside. It is just too delicate a device. There is an external, passive antennae available for the 595U (from both Verizon and the3Gstore); I tried this external antennae in a number of places, and found that it was of little to no help (don't ask me why.)
My gut feeling is that you're probably going to have to eventually give in, and pop for a dual-band amplifier with an outdoor antennae. Which antennae, I can't say - let the experienced guys on the board guide you with that. Hope this helps.[/b]

widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

Thanks for the input and sorry if I confused you a bit. I have a antenna the one I listed at the top of the page. I don't have a option to go any higher indoors which is why I bought the antenna.

My attempt to describe the dBm level was simply to give everyone a idea of what type of range and signal strength I'm getting. It starts out lower in the 80's but as I start doing heavy surfing or downloading it goes up in the 100's.

Tonight it connected right away again to Rev A and i'm getting a -82dBm at the moment. I did a speedtest and throughout the test it has went as high as -104 dBm.

My goal is to make the -82dBm I get at idle a full time signal that way I can both send and receive faster. Here are results of my last speed test which are less than impressive but much better than the nationwide access I was on or the dial up I had before. I love how much faster the response is but I would like to get closer to the hosts average if possible.

Jim_in_VA · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

That yagi should be in a vertical position.
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widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

Do you mean pointing straight up in the air? I looked at the manual and it shows it pointing sideways. How do you line it it directionally standing it straight up in the air?

I wonder if its the rain outside or what but I'm staying between 2 to 3 bars Rev A tonight but the download is still only around 31KB/s which isn't that great.

Thanks for the input there I wasn't sure about that but like I said thats how the pdf manual shows the yagi being pointed.

Jim_in_VA · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject:

No, I meant the elements on the antenna should be vertical. The antenna itself should be parallel to the ground.
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widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

I don't know what you mean by the elements on the antenna. This is how its pointed currently. I just lost my connection a few minutes ago and actually found it again. The last time that happened I couldn't connect to Rev A the rest of the night.

Jim_in_VA · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject:

Yes, you have it installed right
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EvdoNonLOSuser · EVDO User Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 32 Location: PNW

Are your trees going to product more foliage as the spring progresses?

widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

Yes and that tree in the pic isn't the tree line. Thats just a apple tree and I plan on chopping some limbs off to get a clear shot. I'll get a tree line shot up tomorrow but I'd say there up 80-100 feet.

My goal was to try and get higher up or tilt the antenna slightly to go up over the trees.

Otherwise I need some type of external enclosure because the actual tree line is 300-400 feet away from where the antenna is currently at.

Will one of the 3G 3watt amps do much for me in my situation. I mean I'm only 5 miles away so I think I should be able to do better than I'm doing now. I just don't think I'm high enough or just losing to many packets through the trees or something.

EvdoNonLOSuser · EVDO User Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 32 Location: PNW

It's so hard to say what would be the best thing to do here. Are you sure you are connecting on the 850mhz band (not sure if we have had that conversation b4). Do you know what channel you are on? If you can make the ability to adjust the yagi vertically, then that might actually help. Another question I have is how far do you have to go to get past the trees? If you want to go outside with the modem, be prepared to fork out a lot more money. LOL. I just bought an outdoor enclosure with heat and cooling fan but haven't installed it yet. I am currently using a non-heated/cooled enclosure right now.

widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

Jim_in_VA · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:15 am Post subject:

I have a panel antenna that points through this:

Now that the trees have filled out my signal is around -72 dBm. In the Winter, bare trees, its around -65 . You have a cleaner path than I do. I don't think clear-cutting will gain you much.
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EvdoNonLOSuser · EVDO User Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 32 Location: PNW

widgetman101, nice pics. I wish I was on the 850mhz. It would have made things a lot easier for me. I live in a mountainous rural area, so it just doesnt make sense that they would use 1900mhz. I just had a thought....I noticed you have a clearing of grass b4 you get to the treeline. Is there any clearing in the opposite direction of your antenna? If so, you might want to try to take your yagi on the pvc pipe and see if you can do some site eval's with a laptop. i.e., the farther you can get from the treeline, the better your signal might be. If you get better signal than by the house, then you might want to get good mast and get it higher at the point you got a good signal. Just a thought though. If all this isn't applicable, then all I can think of is : A) A bigger yagi B) a grid antenna(it will probably be tuned to 900mhz though) C) More antenna elevation at the house.

-Oh, did you get a chance to angle the yagi up or down?
-Are you using LMR-400 or equivalent?
-Jim keeps mentioning his panel antenna. Maybe that could be an option too? (I have no experience with them)

I am sure you probably have done this. But make sure you have good connections. I have personally experience a lot of "float" in the signal due to unacceptable contact at the connections during my quest for evdo.

I hope at least a small percentage of this is helpful. As always, there are others that are more experienced and knowlegdable than I. So, hopefully they will lend some helping advice. Good luck.

widgetman101 · EVDO User Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

WTF I'm getting so teased its not even funny right now. I got upset and tried to put the antenna up but with the mounting bracket it has I couldn't tilt it. So I aimed it in another direction and got full bars of rev a and connected without a problem.

Now it won't connect and it will bounce me in and out of Rev A. Damn I was got a great speed too! I'm really starting to get upset.