Sprint XOHM

J_Walker · EVDO Heavy User Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 117

Regardless of bandwidth, I would expect latency to be substantially lower and more stable than EVDO, which in itself, would be worth the switch for me.

Fox McCloud · EVDO Junkie Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 612

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

Some Clearewire users doing 'fixed' WiMAX have said they got as low as 20-30ms latency, but others have hit over 1000ms. Sounds like the average is no different than RevA. It will of course depend on environmental conditions. And that's an early revision of WiMAX.

I'd think you'd need LOS to the tower or be very close to it to get the lower end numbers.

I too would rather have lower latency than high bandwidth. I haven't seen a need to have over 1-2Mbps unless doing P2P or high def video streaming. I do plenty of file downloads on RevA and am generally satisfied. Averaging over 2Mbps would be a nice bonus but a focus on lower latency would have more value.

JGZinv · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:20 am Post subject:

Engadget posted up another report on XOAM
as well as stating the new mobile AP router's now out....

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/07/switched-on-the-wimax-window-part-2/

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/07/cradlepoint-busts-out-ctr-350-cellular-travel-router/

J_Walker · EVDO Heavy User Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 117

Sprint will be rolling out a different flavor of WiMax, so you can't really judge it based off of Clearwire at this point. If latency is hitting 300+, it's probably more likely attributed to oversubscription than anything else, which plague's a ton of fixed wireless providers. However, the mobile flavor that Sprint will be using probably would only increase latency over the fixed flavor, so who knows.

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

Yeah, like it said, Clearwire is using an early revision of fixed WiMAX. But what's good to know is that 20-30ms is apparently possible. Not likely for average, especially indoors, but good to know WiMAX's best possible latency is likely better than EVDO's best possible latency, which typically doesn't get below 70ms and is usually over 100ms.

My expectations are not set high for the first pilot though. I suspect Sprint will need to rely on EVDO as a backup for a good year.

evdoman · EVDO User Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 68

I hate to be so repetitive, but Im still searching for answers to my original curiousity...

So you guys are essentially saying that while forecasts of WiMax/XOHM speed & latency varies and it will depend on how external factors influence it to see how it really pans out, the likely result will be roughly in line with EvDO Rev A, probably better. However, EvDO Rev B still sounds to be right about in line with it and backhauling is needed for either technology... so doesnt this still leave the question of why bother with WiMax since it would be more expensive than simply moving to EvDO Rev B? Im aware of the multiple-devices potential benefit of WiMax mentioned earlier (though as I also said earlier, I dont see why multiple CDMA accounts couldnt be tied to unified billing to achieve the same thing), so I really am still at a loss to understand Sprint's logic here. The need to hand off, more infrustructure expense, less building penetration, and all for performance that is likely to be about the same as EvDO Rev B.... why not just go with Rev B?

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

We can't know unless Sprint discloses the details so you might just have to accept that. And RevC would be the way to go, not RevB. RevC/UMB is similar to WiMAX as both are a flavor of OFDM. So there is not much fundamental difference.

Again, licensing/royalties, device management and industry involvement are entirely different in the WiMAX model than the closed cell service model. You seem to only look at the short term, not the long term. Or do you work for Qualcomm? Smile

They've made $billions on CDMA royalties and are really the only ones opposed to WiMAX... hmm, wonder why.

Sprint will still maintain the EVDO network as long as they use CDMA, and maybe even upgrade to RevC using WiMAX as a backhaul. But maintaining EVDO will focus on cell-based devices, not consumer electronics devices as WiMAX will eventually focus on.

It's also common that carriers maintain several networks. Verizon has FIOS, DSL, EVDO a backbone, etc. ATT has many networks. Sprint is doing WiMAX to partly and eventually compete in the DSL space but moreso to get longer range wireless networking into consumer devices to replace/supplement WiFi. There is just no way consumer product makers will create devices for many networks. They'll do the one with no/minimal royalty fees and a more open network that doesn't involve contracts, and that's WiMAX.

It's also inevitable that integrated WiMAX/WiFi chipsets will be produced in bulk making it easy for consumer product makers to slip it in and not have to deal with carriers. We probably would not see WiFi/EVDO/LTE/HSDPA chipsets developed.

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

Will WiMAX devices draw less power than EVDO?

The Novatel EVDO ExpressCard draws over 3W max and near 500mW when idle.
http://www.novatelwireless.com/pdf/Merlin_X720_Datasheet.pdf

There is a WiMAX ExpressCard that claims to draw under 1W max, 280mw avg and 10mW when idle.
http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2007/09/04/090714.html

Could be marketing BS but that could be significant if true. Doesn't sound right that Wimax average would draw less power than EVDO when idle. But wow if true. Will improve battery life significantly for portable devices.

Found this that shows power consumption of some WiFi cards, which is inline with the WiMAX card claims.
http://www.davespda.com/reviews/other/belkin.htm

Fox McCloud · EVDO Junkie Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 612

I'm definitely not a "green" person, but I'm all for increasing the battery life, per charge, of my laptop....if that's true, then I would think you'd see significantly improved battery life in your laptop.

I just hope that WiMAX cards don't run as hot as the EVDO cards have.

evdoman · EVDO User Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 68

From an article I read earlier this week...

"The battle over the future of wireless broadband services is far from over. Qualcomm Chief Operating Officer Sanjay Jha insists the chip designer is still in a good position. In April it hedged its bets by purchasing WiMAX technologies from chipmaker TeleCIS Wireless Inc., raising the possibility that it could demand royalties on WiMAX devices.

Much of WiMAX's hopes in the U.S. rest with the weakest of the phone carriers, Sprint. And right now, the technology gobbles power and limits battery life on portable devices, so improvements will be needed to speed adoption. "To get to the mass market, with better devices and lower prices, we'll have to wait at least another year, to 2009," cautions analyst Monica Paolini, with market researcher Senza Fili Consulting.

Perhaps then we'll find out whether the forces behind WiMAX can alter the communications landscape, or if this is simply the latest over-hyped phenomenon in an industry that sees big ideas come and go with dizzying speed. "

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

^Please post sources as you're only selecting out one point of view. Here is the article, which is about Intel...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_36/b4048401.htm

I'm skeptical of WiMAX being lower power, but this is a newer chipset and they have demonstrated it to others.

Found the spec sheet on the chipset that claims to have lower power than EVDO. It is inline with WiFi chipsets...

http://www.sequans.com/site/images/SQN1130.pdf

We'll find out within a few months.

xenophon · EVDO Addict Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2001

Looks like AT&T might be rolling out WiMAX in areas they have 2.3Ghz spectrum.

http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=133853&f_src=unstrung_sitedefault

The article incorrectly says Sprint is doing WiMAX to replace cellular, which makes no sense. Sprint is doing WiMAX to compete with DSL as they don't have landline to the last mile much anywhere, to avoid royalties and to supply wireless broadband to a broader range of consumer devices... and they have to use the 2.5Ghz spectrum or give it up.

I do expect ATT to still downplay WiMAX, how broadly it can be used in consumer devices, because they don't have enough spectrum to do it nationwide. If they did have spectrum, they'd probably be singing out about WiMAX. If WiMAX goes into the 700mhz space after the next auction, that might happen.

It will be really interesting to see where Verizon goes. They probably don't have enough spectrum to do 4G at even the 30 or so major markets (at existing 800/1900 spectrum) so will probably have to acquire 700mhz space. If RevC isn't developed in the 700mhz space and WiMAX is, they'll probably go WiMAX. They have said they won't decide on 4G direction until next year, probably after the 700mhz auction.

Even if 4G hits the 700mhz space, it won't be available for a couple more years and may not be very high performing. Sprint/Clearwire have over 100mhz of spectrum avg in 2.5Ghz within each market, which is quite a bit. The spectrum within 700mhz might be limited to a quarter of that for 4G, probably much smaller.

xrayman · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:28 am Post subject:

Sprint plans a new wireless network

Large feature article in the Kansas City Star today. Not much info that has not been printed before but a well done article that explains Xohm WiMAX.

"Sprint’s West said he was heartened that the types of questions have started to shift from whether WiMax would work to how Sprint and Clearwire intend to use it to make money."
"Sprint executives remain coy about pricing, but indicated monthly Internet prices with Xohm probably would be set between $20 and $60."

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/276913.html

Fox McCloud · EVDO Junkie Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 612

talk about a broad assessment...."$20 to $60"....that provides so little information, they might as well just say "we haven't settled on a price, for sure, yet".

Either way, if it's anything over $60, I'll be very disappointed.