PC5750 aircard with Kyocera KR1 router, KPC650 broke?

uruiamme

I was having trouble with something in this setup:

a Kyocera KR-1 router
a Kyocera KPC650 aircard
the Alltel network itself.

So I went through a long rigamorole with Alltel data and business support, and they finally agreed to send me an aircard to try troubleshooting that. Of all things, I called today and asked Alltel where my aircard was, I have been waiting a long time. They said, "Oh, it should arrive today FedEx. And by the way, we sent you a PC5750, and it is incompatible with the KR1. Try taking it to a store and trading it out for a PC5740."

Well, I have seen here that the PC5750 indeed has problems with the KR1, although I have the latest firmware RK1010. But I have an older KR1 I bought in March.

Meanwhile, my KPC650 does indeed seem to have worse problems with the WAP mode turned on. But even with it off, it disconnects randomly.

Should I try the PC5750 or go with the PC5740 trade-in?

For all I know, it could be my router is bad, anyway.

Thanks.

uruiamme

So I went to the Alltel store to trade out my PC5750 for a PC5740. Guess what? None are available locally, nor in the next state to the north. But good news, the new "Huawei" (pronounced similar to the state) card is, and today is the first day of availability.

What is it? I am told it replaces the PC5740, and it is compatible with it, and it will work in the KR1 router. I said, yeah, right, and I'm flying to the moon next week, too. Question

I explained that I am having trouble with the KR1 and Kyocera support wants me to verify it is problematic, or else they won't bother replacing the KR1. What a mess. And then as the Alltel rep tried to run it through the checkout, she couldn't figure out how to do it. She ended up giving it to me and acted like she would need to run it through next Monday somehow. Shocked

Something to do with the fact that I did not buy it at the store.

So I get to try a Huawei aircard. I have seen or heard NOTHING about it. Maybe I'll send pictures. Is it a rebadged 5740 now that the PC5740 is EOL? Surely not. Will it work with KR1? Who knows.

On top of all this, I sure hope I am not being charged for any of this. This was just to try getting me some support for a dropped call problem with the KPC650.

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

Huawei is certainly not a rebranded pc5740. The 5740 was EOL'ed quite some time ago so no surprise that your store didn't have any. Also, the 5740 is a UTStarcom device. An entirely different manufacturer.

The Huawei was released Thursday by Alltel. The specs are:

The Huawei EC 360 Features:

* Wireless Internet capable
* PC Card with Hinged Antenna (mouse over to include PCMCIA Type II Card)
* Optimized performance with Receive Diversity
* External Antenna Port
* Operating systems supported: Windows XP and Vista
* Size – 4.7” x 2.1” x 0.4”
* Technology – EVDO, 1xRtt
* Domestic Frequency – CDMA 800/1900 MHz

It amazes me that Alltel would release a new device that isn't Rev A capable but . . . . . I DO find it very interesting (and potentially VERY exciting!!) that on the Huawei company website under "Products" the list includes:

WiMAX

· WiMAX Base Station
· Access Service Network Gateway

Who knows what, if anything, this means but a guy could sure hope and wish, huh!! Is Alltel laying the framework for WiMAX? Considering their roaming agreement with Sprint it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Also, I'd be very surprised if the Huawei card works in the KR1 router. They definitely don't list it among their compatible devices.

Good luck! Let us know how it works out for ya!

uruiamme · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: Sad news

Well, as you already know, it is the Huawei EC360. And as everyone knows, there is not generally a clueful person in any Wireless store owned by a US carrier, and this Alltel store was no different. The lady wasn't really lying through her teeth -- she's a victim of clueless salesmanship. Priority one in being a salesperson: Customer relations. Two: know what you're selling.

Well, it didn't take long to figure out that the card was worthless to me. I had to activate it in a friend's laptop, and then I put it right into the KR1 router. (Well, after doing a speed test at DSLreports. I got 595 kbps and 95 kbps up at first, then about 20% less the next time.) As you and I guessed, and everyone familiar with the firmware of a device like this would guess, the EC360 failed to be detected. No connection, not even a list of what was installed in the logs or status page of the KR1.

Duh, but I activated this card and not the PC5750 based on what I was told to do. Obviously, at least I would have had a shot with the 5750 since Kyocera/D-Link used to support it with the 1.010 firmware. So maybe I can go back to the Alltel store and ask if I can activate the PC5750 I had at first. Unless they can produce a KPC650 or PC5740, I can't make this work.

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

I really feel for you. Have you had the KPC650 since March too? If so, was it working fine all this time? If so, how long ago did the problems begin?

I'd guess, if you weren't having these problems for several weeks or months and then they suddenly appeared, you may have a tower issue. That would be the first thing I'd investigate. Do you have a laptop you could use the KPC650 with? If so, did it work that way meaning it was a KR1 issue? How did they decide that the card was the problem in the first place?

Too bad the KPC650 is apparently gone. It was your best bet (actually ONLY bet) for using with the KR1. Alltel doesn't sell another card that works with the KR1 until Kyocera comes out with the adapter for the KPC680. THere are some folks who are using the pc5750 though and having minimal problem until/if a solution comes out. In the meantime maybe trying the KPC680 is an option if you have an express card slot in your laptop until the adapter is released.

Good luck!

uruiamme · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: Still clunky

Yep, the PC5750 is working fast for me on Alltel, but as everyone may imagine, the KR1 does go down for the count a lot still. It may not be as often as the problems I had with the KPC650. But the problem is more SEVERE with the PC5750, because so far I have had to manually unplug the router to get it to reset. Even a cold reset often fails, and I am back to narrowband while I wait for the problem to correct itself.

When the router boots and it is connected, it always calls the 5750 a PANTECH-PX500. But what I notice is that when it is rebooted by me for connection losses, there are many times where it does not list the PANTECH name, but it is instead blank. When I go to check the router, it has the infamous orange light solid on. This prompts a cold reset, because no amount of web browser reboots will fix it.

I recently went an entire day in which I forgot to switch back to the Alltel broadband connection and used the slowband. I guess the KR1 had been lit orange all that time. A few reboots later and I was back up.

So the PC5750 is maybe faster, but its flakiness is worse. I did see a new firmware available here: http://www.alltel.com/personal/cs/announcements_wireless_13.html
which will:
* Update the firmware (device software) for your PC5750 data card
* Update the PRL to the latest version (5/21/2007)
* Update the QuickLink Mobile dialer
I will try that.

Note: I have to borrow a laptop to do any of that. My laptop only has the newer slots, not the PC Card PCMCIA old style.

The troubleshooters (Kyocera/D-Link and Alltel) kept telling me over and over to try the card in another guy's laptop. That's ridiculous. I can't make that work -- I needed to test my entire network. Surfing with one laptop would not possibly stress the card. So I got Alltel to send me the tester card. This way, I activate in a few minutes and I can give the laptop back to my friend who uses it all the time.

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

uruiamme,

Remember that the PC5750 card is NOT supported by Kyocera in the KR1 so it would be a bit unreasonable to expect it to work. Chances are great that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the card itself but instead that you're expecting it to work in a router that it's just not going to work in.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the KR1, or Alltel's service either. Considering the investment you've already made that's pretty tough news though.

Obviously the reason the troubleshooters wanted you to try the card in a laptop (that you didn't own yourself) was to try to determine if the card was the problem.

Maybe consider this:

There's nothing wrong with your card.

There's nothing wrong with your KR1 router.

There's nothing wrong with Alltel's EVDO service.

But there IS something wrong with the combination of the above.

Sadly, Alltel doesn't currently sell a data card that's compatible with the KR1.

Mackieman · EVDO Junkie Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 485

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a little of both. The WiFi radio used in KR1 is a little sensitive when playing with others and sometimes doesn't like to share. As a result, it gets mad, takes its toys, and goes home. While proverbial at best, that is something that has been posted on these boards since KR1 was introduced almost two years ago. EVDO devices from any manufacturer were never designed to operate so close to another radio such as the Atheros radio in KR1.

Often, the WiFi radio gets overloaded by the signals from the EVDO device. Instead of completely locking, KR1 has software in place to effectively execute a hardware reset the radio so that operation can continue. Now, this problem can be greatly exacerbated by environmental conditions (RFI, CDMA power control, etc). If you're in a low signal environment, CDMA power control can jack up the power to maintain a connection.

If you look at the system log on KR1, you may see something like this:

Aug 9 08:11:25 (none) user.warn.klodg: ath_bstuck_tasklet line: 3883:wifi0 (bmiss count 6), BSTUCK_REBOOT_THRESH=10

That's a pretty good indication that your radio is hardware resetting due to being overloaded by the RF environment around the router.

Is it something that can be fixed? Eh...probably not. This same issue has been reported here on the U720 and widely on the Sierra AC580 which had documented RF leakage issues if I remember correctly. It would be interesting to see if turning off WiFi solved the stability issues for you.

uruiamme · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: No WiFi

I had independently decided to not use the WiFi. It was one of the things I turned off early on when I had problems. The same issues could be true with the regular ethernet ports and congestion. The D-Link people really should have hardened it more, or whatever chipset they use is buggy or something. I would like to think a firmware would solve it, but somethng tells me it will always be a big kludge.

Are there really people who get a 100% satisfaction from this or any other wireless router? To me, it's like we're operating in the 80s trying to dial in our 2400 bps modem into a BBS with old CO line and equipment noise. It's about that poor on reliability. Even in a static location, I see better network uptime with the DEPLORABLE Wildblue satellite service that is about the same price (but usually half the commitment -- this 2 year stuff with cheap throwaway PC Cards is ridiculous). I am trying Alltel to supplement things like Wildblue, which has problems during bad weather and at random intervals. But the sat is (so far IMHO) better and much more reliable, even if not much more mature a technology.

That is a poor complement for Wildblue -- to be better than Cellular broadband. It's like saying "getting a fine and public disgrace is better than going to jail."

I would like to try an antenna sometime, but since I am on my third aircard in a week, how would I be able to find that many pigtails and try them all? The activation of each card makes the whole thing a big mess. You can't easily go back and try what worked better without an activation fee.

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

Yup. There are really people who are 100% satisfied with the KR1. I am one. I use it with my Alltel PC5740 card and, depending on my circumstances and location, I use it with my Sprint U720 card. Never have I had a problem. I use it with the wireless turned on to network several laptops and desktops together. We're mostly static here but spend long periods on the road ever so often. It has never presented the slightest problem in either situation. As you can tell, I am a big fan of the KR1.

I have also referred several friends to it and none of them have ever had any real problems with it. Their usages are both static and mobile. One even uses multiple KR1's paired with Sprint cards to provide internet access to people attending conferences in various locations across the country. Never any real problems.

It's sad you're having such problems. I know it can be mind numbing having to deal with this sort of thing. Apparently you're not in an area that Sprint covers? Have you had your KR1 too long to exchange it for the Linksys model that may work better for you?

I have to admit that you're the first person I've ever heard of who is saying Wildblue Sat service beats out EVDO. That is REALLY sad! Usually all across the country it's the very opposite.

By the way, if you don't mind . . . where are you located zip code wise? Just curious is all.

uruiamme · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: location

My location is the same as vice president Cheney during the 9/11 aftermath. (Haha)

I am in a rural area of the Ozark Mountains, smack dab in the middle of nothing bordering on nowhere. Our telco is one of the last hold-out non-bell, never been an RBOC, and actually Alltel used to be a local phone company south of here before they divested it into something called Windstream. (I have tons of old Alltel phone books.) Branson is the largest city near me.

It is with great reluctance that I would put Wildblue over anything. My telco started doing Wildblue installs a year ago because they needed to get broadband to their most remote customers (me) still using ISDN. It was about 5 notches down from ISDN until recently. (ISDN was noticably faster, especially on secure websites.) Lately Wildblue has been pretty stable, but we upgraded to a better plan.

An Altel tower 3 miles from my house is my main opportunity to connect except for satellite and ISDN-BRI (128 kbps). We have excellent signal on phones here. There are some people around here who had Cingular, but the ones who did had poor signal in this immediate area. So that puts me into The New AT&T possibility, but I doubt they have EVDO, and I doubt their signal is going to be good enough to bother.

I called the cellular company in my nearest town and asked them if they sell anything except Alltel. "Not any more." The Alltel retail store is normally packed, especially in the afternoons and evenings.

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

Being 3 miles from an Alltel tower, assuming it has EVDO on it, means you should not be having a problem signal wise. Unless of course the terrain is the problem. If you're down in a valley and there are hills/mountains between you and the Alltel antenna then obviously that would cause reception problems.

That being said, from what you've said here, it appears to me that getting a usable Alltel EVDO signal really isn't so much the problem as getting the data card/cards you're trying to work with the KR1. Is this correct? I mean, if the signal isn't stable and/or usable then you've wasted a lot of time carrying on about the card and the router so I'm thinking that is NOT the case. Question

If so, then maybe you could buy one of the phones the KR1 supports from eBay (since, sadly, Kyocera has decided to only support old, obsolete phones no carrier has sold for decades!! Not really that bad but geez, you'd think a device touted for being the only EVDO router that supports USB connected phones would actually do so with a phone somebody currently uses . . . .) and activate it on Alltel then connect it to the KR1 and voila! I know none of the phones they support are Alltel phones but the Kyocera KX18 was an Amp'd phone and there are many instances of it and the Samsung A900 from Sprint getting activated on Alltel. Just check out some of the phone forums for more info on the how to details if you want to give it a try.

Anyway, just tossing stuff out there for ya!! Hope you find SOMETHING that works. Sad to think Wildblue may be your best option!!

Of course you could always move towards civilization!!! Very Happy

Come to the light!! Come to the light!!

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

Another option:

Buy a PCMCIA to PCI adapter for your PC5750 and use ICS in windows to network your pc's. If wireless is needed you should be able to somehow use the KR1 as a wireless access point shouldn't you? Of course I realize it would be a rather expensive wireless access point but . . . . you do already have it.

Here's a link to a thread where some are successfully using the adapter http://www.evdoforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=36521#36521

uruiamme · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: Yes, I thought of that

I had thought of both. The phone and transfering an unlocked one to Alltel like the A900 sounds like a winner. It was one of my first ideas back when I discovered the usefulness of the KR1 and I tried to see if I could just get a phone rather than an aircard. I bought the KPC650 for very cheap on eBay. (No contract, woo hoo!) I am basically handling this troubleshoot myself, although I spoke with my local business support rep or whatever they call them. She got me into this deal where a DSR data support rep was sending me this card to trouble shoot, and got wires crossed with the PC5750. I still don't know if they are going to charge me for all of this -- I have no 2-year contract, I got the initial activation fee waived by my BSR, and this troubleshooting deal was supposed to be "Oh, yeah, the DSR in Little Rock has a lot of aircards sitting around, maybe he could send you one" but I instead seemed to maybe get a new PC5750.

I might circumvent this "help" from Alltel and go back to that A900 idea. Back then, the aircard was a steal, and re-activating an A900 on Alltel was going to be iffy and I could end up with junk... The ebay auction with Alltel and KPC650 in the title seemed too smart.

But ideally, I might try sticking a card in a server using a PCI/PC Card adapter (a lot cheaper than the laptop converter things in that last link). Unfortunately, I would prefer it hooked to a Unix or Linux box rather than Windows, but I might try either one. I already do some routing on a non-Windows server. When my wireless goes down, I just tell it to switch its default router to the ISDN line or even Wildblue. This is fun and interesting, and not a topic for the faint of heart, because the network I maintain is pretty complicated even for you guys living in civilization.

Unfortunatley, the Unix and Linux drivers are not normally available for aircards. My Windows 2003 server could do it, but I hadn't planned on setting it up to route except as a last resort. They need rebooting way too much. I prefer to do NAT and firewalling on non-M$ peecees, thank you very much.

Oh, and you are right -- signal had better *not* be my problem. I did get my Alltel BSR to offer to send out the big boys with big test equipment if need be to figure out why the calls ae dropping. (But with 9 or 10 bars shown in the KR-1 a lot, how could this be? It does make me wonder though why I sometimes see four bars during times when it is acting up.)

Bigdave · EVDO Addict Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 1069

Hhmmmmm. I still think the ultimate solution is COME TO THE LIGHT!!!!!!

Sorry about the wrong link earlier. Here's the one to the adapter I was referring to http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16815124021

$20 isn't too much to try it out and of course newegg is a reputable dealer.

Seriously, this is way too interesting. Let us know how it goes.

EDIT: Oh, and I noticed it apparently works in Linux too.