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For KR1 Engineer - Maybe the Device Can Be Fixed

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ajerison
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mackieman wrote:
It is entirely possible that there are some nasty config remnants hanging around after a firmware flash. Updating firmware on a router is not like formatting a hard drive in your personal computer; it simply updates or makes changes to core code. Sometimes this wipes settings in the router; sometimes it doesn't.

I like the idea of trying to reset your router to factory defaults after an upgrade to ensure that the oddities left hanging around the operating environment are minimized. Flashing the firmware again really won't accomplish much outside of ensuring that the code is written properly.

Finally, KR1 is clueless as to whether or not it is operating in EVDO or 1X service. This is a CDMA function that is completely handled by the PC Card. Moreover, soft handoff between EVDO and 1X is seamless for the most part. It is a different service option on the same data channel. This means that KR1 just sees a connection to the Internet; beyond that it has no bearing.


Hi Mackieman,

Somehow VZAccess Mgr knows which mode it's operating in, EVDO or 1xRTT. It would be useful for the KR1 status screen to tell us that, IMHO.

Last night I reset my KR1, manually reconfigured it, and rebooted it. It ran fine for at least a couple of hours before I went to bed. This morning it was still working. Unfortunately the good news didn't last ... I just checked with my wife and the router has failed again during the day.

This is a very frustrating problem. Do you have any suggestions as to what I should try next? To review, I have a Verizon V620 card in a KR1 router running the RK1002 firmware. I've run the same card in two KR1s with the same problem: the connection works fine for a while, then fails. The typical failure mode has the status and WAN lights both turned off, but I've also seen a red status LED. It's common for the router to work for a few hours, then begin failing every few minutes. I'm on the fringe of an EVDO reception area, with a closer 1xRTT tower available.

Thanks,

A.
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Mackieman
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Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 491

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KR1 cares about EVDO signal sensitivity by proxy. As far as KR1 is concerned, the connection is either there or it isn't. The issue is in low signal environments; due to the nature of radio networks, the EVDO data call may be active but packet loss/latency too high to pass data.

The KR1 is setup to ping something every 30 seconds or so to make sure the connection is live. When you're in a low signal environment that is currently experiencing latency issues so that it cannot pass data, that ping may fail. When the ping fails, the KR1 believes that it needs to redial in order to establish a connection. This leads to some issues where there is confusion in the router. Usually it recovers and all is well. Occasionally it will need a powercycle to get back in shape.

Also, there are no known issues with throughput on the Novatel 620 cards. I've had one running for a couple of days with no issues. If you're in a fringe area I would try one of the antenna manufacturers that are represented here. That stuff is a little outside my scope of understanding but generally it helps out.

Also also, The Verizon Access Manager doesn't differentiate between 1X and EVDO. If you look at the EVDO connection option, it says BroadbandAccess/NationalAccess. The data call remains the same; it's a CDMA service option change. The next firmware update should have a basic signal strength indicator on it; nothing fancy but it's there.
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Scott
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Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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Location: Central Coast of California

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mackieman wrote:
...The next firmware update should have a basic signal strength indicator on it; nothing fancy but it's there.


YyyyeesSS!
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ajerison
EVDO User


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mackieman wrote:
KR1 cares about EVDO signal sensitivity by proxy. As far as KR1 is concerned, the connection is either there or it isn't. The issue is in low signal environments; due to the nature of radio networks, the EVDO data call may be active but packet loss/latency too high to pass data.

The KR1 is setup to ping something every 30 seconds or so to make sure the connection is live. When you're in a low signal environment that is currently experiencing latency issues so that it cannot pass data, that ping may fail. When the ping fails, the KR1 believes that it needs to redial in order to establish a connection. This leads to some issues where there is confusion in the router. Usually it recovers and all is well. Occasionally it will need a powercycle to get back in shape.

Also, there are no known issues with throughput on the Novatel 620 cards. I've had one running for a couple of days with no issues. If you're in a fringe area I would try one of the antenna manufacturers that are represented here. That stuff is a little outside my scope of understanding but generally it helps out.

Also also, The Verizon Access Manager doesn't differentiate between 1X and EVDO. If you look at the EVDO connection option, it says BroadbandAccess/NationalAccess. The data call remains the same; it's a CDMA service option change. The next firmware update should have a basic signal strength indicator on it; nothing fancy but it's there.


>>Verizon Access Manager doesn't differentiate between 1X and EVDO. If you look at the EVDO connection option, it says BroadbandAccess/NationalAccess. <<

True, but the program informs me which type of connection it has at any given time. The status bar says either "BroadbandAccess" or "NationalAccess" depending on the current connection. You can also see this in Options / Test WWAN, where the display shows EVDO or 1xRTT depending on the current connection.

I'm about to order a new antenna. It took a long time to figure out which type to get, as I could find no-one at Verizon who could tell me whether the tower I connect to is on 800 or 1900 MHz. I finally used a simple test involving a whip antenna, a cookie sheet and a perforated-metal vegetable grilling sheet to measure the wavelength and found I'm on a 1900 MHz tower.

>>When the ping fails, the KR1 believes that it needs to redial in order to establish a connection. This leads to some issues where there is confusion in the router. Usually it recovers and all is well. Occasionally it will need a powercycle to get back in shape. <<

My experience is rather the opposite: occasionally it recovers; usually it needs a powercycle. VZAccess Manager doesn't exhibit this problem. But it does sound like the right antenna will cure the problem.

Thanks,

A.
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Scott
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally the route mobile EVDO users' take is to get a dual-band (850 MHz/1900 MHz) antenna, since that way they are covered regardless of where they travel.

Static EVDO users can benefit with an antenna tuned to their specific location, of course, since the antenna would be optimized for a specific frequency range and *generally* would be more efficient.

I say generally because a good dual-band antenna will outperform a bad single-band frequency optimized antenna. Quality matters.
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tz1
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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Location: http://kr1gps.dyndns.org:8888/

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other things which might cause a slowdown are mru/mtu mismatches, other PPP settings which might be different on a windows laptop, TCP windows settings, or even a problem with the wireless or ethernet link to the laptop.

It is hard to tell without trying to see the throughput on the KR1 itself (the normal firmware doesn't have an easy way to do this).
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ajerison
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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott wrote:
Generally the route mobile EVDO users' take is to get a dual-band (850 MHz/1900 MHz) antenna, since that way they are covered regardless of where they travel.

Static EVDO users can benefit with an antenna tuned to their specific location, of course, since the antenna would be optimized for a specific frequency range and *generally* would be more efficient.

I say generally because a good dual-band antenna will outperform a bad single-band frequency optimized antenna. Quality matters.


What antenna do you like?
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Scott
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Location: Central Coast of California

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Good Sprint or Verizon EVDO antenna Reply with quote

I like the Booster-Antenna for packing around/travel... and for indoor use in 1-2 'bar' areas.

I like the magnetic mount (aka mini-mag) for auto rooftop use. Have two on my car. Yank 'em off, drive through the car-wash, put 'em back.

I like 'trucker' types with the ground plane spires for more solid mounting on RV's/trucks... and even for use in residential/fixed/static locations where an omni makes sense (because maybe there are multiple towers, or perhaps I am plugging in GSM/GPRS/EDGE or CDMA/EVDO devices at different times and cannot 'point' at a specific tower).

If I was in a fixed/static location and knew the specific frequency(Sprint 1900 or Verizon 850 -or- 1900 area) and didn't need to connect to other towers, then I like directional antennas... 'yagi's' mainly (though I have experimented with 1900 MHz parabolic antennas and a couple others of my own design).

If we're talking about good antenna design/build quality, then there is a benefit to a single-frequency antenna: efficiency. If I have long cable runs I will go the extra mile and cut back/re-terminate the antenna's attached coax feed and use thicker coax for a tall mast/roof-mount, to keep as much signal as possible (not to mention any lightning strike/suppression devices and grounding).

Signal hits the antenna FIRST and leaves it LAST!

If I *still* don't have enough signal or it seems to fluctuate, I'll add an amp.

That's just me though. Some folks START with an amp. LoL. Really just depends on where and how YOU intend to use it. Not every antenna is right for every use... there are those that are more appropriate than others.


Last edited by Scott on Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Scott
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take this to an antenna thread please... we're way off the OP title.

Thanks!
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